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  1. #11
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwar View Post
    So what are your plans for the aftermath, I want to be that long-faced Aussie flying the gyrocopter around.
    I would probably have a loincloth. I mean, if I were to wear one tomorrow, it would be stupid. However, post apocalypse, they will be very popular and a mark for masculinity. Old will be new again.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    My God, the number of my coworkers aged 23-35 whose parents have bought them condos and furnished the damn thing is astounding. No joke, I'm envious.
    Me too. I'd love it if my parents gave me my house and bought my car for me like a few people I know. How these people in turn still struggle to survive boggles my mind.

    Which brings up my next point:

    Parents that pay for 100% of their child's college tuition seem to often end up having it wasted. To the child, college often becomes a fun way to spend 4 years (with occasional nasty classes and tests thrown in), and isn't an investment towards their future and financial independence.

    I think there needs to be more financial literacy and education programs available starting when you get to high school in America so the concept of MONEY isn't so abstract.
    I agree. The school system does a terrible job of preparing students about financial realities. I never understood why I *had* to learn about something that happened 300 years ago, but *couldn't* learn about how our financial system works, even if I wanted to.

  2. #12
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    It's a matter of perspective. The way most of the western world has lived in the past 60 years or so is an aberration from a long history of families living together. Financial/emotional/physical needs are better taken care of in a group that cares for each member. There is nothing wrong with parents financially supporting their children, but it's really nice if the children return the favor and behave gracefully and gratefully for the assistance.

    There will come a time when we will no longer be able to live the way we do today, and it would do our society well to learn how to function as groups again.
    This is the historical perspective I may lack.

    Right now, it appears that the older generation is often supporting the younger generations. Which may be common, but I can't help but notice that despite the help, many people are still running deficits or barely treading water. When will these people start accumulating the resources necessary to help their children in the future? And will they be willing to help?

  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    This is an interesting question, because I'm not sure if there is a simple right answer. On the one hand in you give your children everything they need then they'll never learn to manage money on their own. On the other hand if you give them nothing, they still won't know what to do.

    The best you can do is teach your children about money and hope they follow the advice even though so much in society wants to make people into poor money managers. The credit card companies are just the tip of the iceberg. A lot of businesses will "suggest" how much you should spend on something. Like a mortgage company will suggest you spend 25% of your income on a 30-year loan. Here's a tip: the mortgage company is not on your side. They are just trying to take your money, and furthermore a 30-year mortgage in not a good investment. Period. Add all this with advertising and plain old keeping up with the Jones', and you find it can be really hard to manage money well.


    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think there needs to be more financial literacy and education programs available starting when you get to high school in America so the concept of MONEY isn't so abstract. I know when I first got to college I filled out a form for a credit card and seriously fucked myself up because I didn't know. My parents had to pay off the credit card bill twice and I was so afraid of credit I didn't get another cc until five years later. If I had known/been taught how to manage a credit I would've handled getting a credit card with no parental supervision more maturely.
    Totally agree. This was one of my frustrations when I was teaching math. Many gen. ed. math classes do not teach anything about modern money concepts, and the ones that do could really spend more time on it. Even considering all this we'd still have to teach against popular advertising. I remember after going through a section on interest rates a student asked me, "what do you think is an acceptable amount of debt for someone my age?" I had to answer, "zero".
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  4. #14
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    It's a matter of perspective. The way most of the western world has lived in the past 60 years or so is an aberration from a long history of families living together. Financial/emotional/physical needs are better taken care of in a group that cares for each member. There is nothing wrong with parents financially supporting their children, but it's really nice if the children return the favor and behave gracefully and gratefully for the assistance.
    Exactly. Over our history as humanity, we rarely have been able to live in single household without help from a wider net of familiar units. Anyway, I think it would be "better" if there was enough money and well-being so that each household could care only for his own need, but we can't fool ourselves into thinking that this is necessarily the case. I also think that nowadays we often - for various reasons - leave the place were our parents resided, and by this token "waste" property away.

    Of course, some people just don't know how to manage money. They'll have a tough time when on their own. Many people of my age waste money in a way I find just unbelievable. Yet I believe part of the success of our economic system lies in the presence of people with really low savings rate, thus I have to "thank" them somehow.
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  5. #15
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    If my father were still alive, he would still financially support me.

    And aside from having to deal with the horror that is his existence, I would much appreciate his financial contributions.

    My father did not value work, he valued education, and as long as I were studying and in school, he would pay for all of my expenses.

    He used to tell me, Nicole, you'll have the rest of your life to work, so stay in school as long as you can. (One of the very few things we actually agreed on )

    My mom helps me out with as much as she can, and she currently pays for my tuition, and I guess rent, too.

    I do not feel guilty for this, but rather quite appreciative. Now that I am both working while concurrently attending school, I feel the pain of many. Having no free time to just live and breathe!!! But, my life ain't so bad.

    Most everyone I was raised with came from uber-upper class, and some of them live off of their parent's wealth, and others don't. The men seem to suffer the most from this predicament. Every guy I know who is a trust fund baby has some form of mild depression, and a lack of drive. :/

    All in all, I am a fan of having benefactors to allow you to pursue that which you love without being hindered by having to make money, ew!
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  6. #16
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    I am in college, and I like to consider myself financially independent. I pay for everything I do and/or have. With the exception of my car insurance and cell phone.... neither of which I use often anyways.

    In fact, I have lent money out to my parents numerous times. A basic rule I like to live by is to not ask for money unless it is owed to me AND manage money wisely... save,save,save. ALSO..... watch your interest rates, and credit cards, don't just pay minimum payments, pay it off in full every month. If you don't have the money in the bank to pay for it, don't buy it.

    It really does kind of sicken me to see how other students live. Their parents pay for their education and everything and most students take it for granted. I guess my point is, parents paying for everything and supporting their kids leads to irresponsibility, but that's obvious.
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  7. #17
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    If you don't have the money in the bank to pay for it, don't buy it.
    Ahah yeah. My rule for any "major" purchase is: buy only if you have at least 10x money in your bank account.
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  8. #18
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post

    It really does kind of sicken me to see how other students live. Their parents pay for their education and everything and most students take it for granted. I guess my point is, parents paying for everything and supporting their kids leads to irresponsibility, but that's obvious.
    Their taking it for granted is one thing, but I never hate on the prosperity of others, that leads to bitterness and resentment.

    My best friend's dad is wealthy and she refuses to take his money even though she is a struggling aspiring writer living in N.Y.C. who has no time to write because she's so busy working...

    But then I think of Bukowski, the post office, his life, and what beautiful work he created out of such crappy circumstances.
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  9. #19
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this lately because of some reading I'm doing.

    What ways do people think men and women are socialized to view money?

    There is a definite attitudinal difference between how women accumulate and spend money and how men accumulate and spend money. For instance, men are encouraged to take more calculated risk with their money in order to increase it, and while everyone is advised to save, more women are risk cautious and adverse when it comes to taking the money they've saved and earned and growing it through investing, stocks, etc. Women also tend to be more likely to buy what they don't need, make more unplanned purchases, and buy things as often as possible ("Hey I like that shirt so much I'm gonna get it in three different colors!").
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  10. #20
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    i'm surprised there are so many emotionally dependent on their parents.

    And it is even more surprising that these sane people claim all the dignity and rights of individuals.

    And it turns out that these same 'individuals' are not only emotionally dependent on their parents, but financially dependent too.

    And yet it doesn't seem to bother them.

    And why should it? For our society has changed under their feet from a society of individuals to an etribal society where individuals no longer matter but it is the group, the family, the tribe that is the focus of attention.

    Of course we keep literate individuality as a fetish, but really it is all over with the advent of television and now the internet.

    Our manners and mores are shaped by the media we use. And we use the electronic media. And even books themselves are being digitalised at an increasing rate.

    And so it is becoming increasingly normal for us to live dependent lives - dependent on the group and on our families.

    And oddly enough, we are becoming Eastern just as the East is moving West.

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