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  1. #1
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Default The Devilish Role/ 8th function

    So this is just something I've been curious about, and I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. I've always struggled with my 8th function, introverted Feeling, and I've always wanted to know why. But it came to me the other day... is the reason we struggle with our 8th function because our Aspirational role (4th function)?

    For instance, whenever I try to use Fi, i.e. try to figure out what's important to me or has value to me and use this to make decisions, it works out at first.... but then when people I care about express disappointment/anger over my decision, I start rethinking the decisions/values I made with Fi and start flip-flopping because I want to make them happy (Fe). I don't have a specific example right now, but I'll come back to it. Does that sound like Fe blocking Fi, or is that just me?

    I think this could work the other way around too. Take ETJs... Their aspirational role is Fi and their devilish role is Fe. Maybe when they want to use Fe to make decisions regarding the people around them, Fi kicks in and reprimands them for contradicting their personal values. Or for ENPs, when they try to make a decision in the moment using Se, Si kicks in and remembers how things always have been and uses that as a guideline instead.

    So anyways... just a few thoughts. What do y'all think?
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  2. #2
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    My 8th function is extraverted bean bag tossing.
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  3. #3
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    INTJ here. Si is my Devil.

    Now, I ride my bicycle a lot, and I do it mostly for the thrills: speed, car surfing, seeing the city in each day's different light. It happens sometimes these days that I'll be looking at something common--a building or the layout of the road--and just for the briefest of instants I'll get a flash of other cities I've lived and ridden in. A brief comparison of physical characteristics takes place. A vague sense of uneasy F goes with it usually--not sure if it's uneasy memory or unease at actually doing that awful Si thing--seems like a mix of both.

    I think if I actually try doing introverted sensing, it'd go horribly wrong. Why? I don't know. However, I'm coming around to the idea that all eight functions exist in every person, but that preference is psychologically binding somehow.


    Preference creates an organised psychology for us. Without preference how do we function? How would we choose which function to use to deal with any given situation? Theoretically if all functions were equally open to us, we could choose whichever function worked best at that moment, but why would we choose any? What would choose? If all functions are genuinely available, what drives choice? Presumably it is the environment that drives, and there is no "us".

    (But then, why should there be an "us" anyway, a personality? Hmmm.... perilous close to circular reasoning here.)


    Anyway. Guessing.

  4. #4
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    I think this could work the other way around too. Take ETJs... Their aspirational role is Fi and their devilish role is Fe. Maybe when they want to use Fe to make decisions regarding the people around them, Fi kicks in and reprimands them for contradicting their personal values. Or for ENPs, when they try to make a decision in the moment using Se, Si kicks in and remembers how things always have been and uses that as a guideline instead.

    So anyways... just a few thoughts. What do y'all think?
    Ohmygawd. :eek: I'm not big on these analyses, but that sounds just like my best friend. He can't seem to go off of anything but past experience, whereas I'll just dive in. Like with hanging out with friends who haven't always hung out like they said they would, I'll just try to go and he'll hang back, saying, "They've stood us up before, what's to keep them from doing it again?" or decide that he doesn't want to and sometimes generalizes the whole group (Ne?) so that one member is guilty of the faults of the whole even if he isn't near as bad. I always try to give reasons why they weren't able to hang, but for some reason he can't get past that barrier.

    What place is Si in for me and how would that affect how I do things?
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  5. #5
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Steph, that idea makes a lot of sense to me. There have been times where I'll try to work through a problem via Si (by considering details of similar problems or reading the manual or whatever) but I find I become impatient or frustrated with that process very quickly and I prefer to switch back to a more hands-on Se approach and work it out moment by moment.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  6. #6
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Glad to see I might be onto something here!

    Jeffster: And what would you aspirational function be, then?

    Kalach: I definitely agree with you. What may sound like possible balance may actually be chaos if we didn't have preferences. I would steer clear of my 8th function if it was left up to me, but unfortunately I'm surrounded by Fi users. They can't understand why I don't like making decisions using values and instead prefer to make them more objectively. It absolutely overwhelms me. So when my Fi friends/family keep pressing that I make decisions according to what's important to me, my Fe goes: Alright... I'll try to take their advice... for their sake. Then I fall off my rocker, and don't feel like myself.

    Stellar: Si for you is your 5th function/Opposing role. I actually see that in one of my ESTP friends sometimes, but more in conversation than the way you described your friend. I don't even know if this is common in ESTPs. She has a memory like an elephant, and takes note of any action anyone ever does... not that she doesn't let people live things down, but she'll definitely make a remark about it... maybe even playful. Anyways, your devilish function would be Te, and your aspirational one is Ti... I'm having trouble figuring out how to apply my hypothesis to that one though

    Poppy: Exactly what I'm talking about! I see that in my INTJ brother all the time
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  7. #7
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    Kalach: I definitely agree with you. What may sound like possible balance may actually be chaos if we didn't have preferences. I would steer clear of my 8th function if it was left up to me, but unfortunately I'm surrounded by Fi users. They can't understand why I don't like making decisions using values and instead prefer to make them more objectively. It absolutely overwhelms me. So when my Fi friends/family keep pressing that I make decisions according to what's important to me, my Fe goes: Alright... I'll try to take their advice... for their sake. Then I fall off my rocker, and don't feel like myself.
    I'm the exact same way, Steph. I don't usually know what I "want". Sure, I make decisions based on appeal to the senses, but not based on what I personally feel. I manipulate things and events based on what I want sensually, and sometimes what others want when I don't feel like making an effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    Stellar: Si for you is your 5th function/Opposing role. I actually see that in one of my ESTP friends sometimes, but more in conversation than the way you described your friend. I don't even know if this is common in ESTPs. She has a memory like an elephant, and takes note of any action anyone ever does... not that she doesn't let people live things down, but she'll definitely make a remark about it... maybe even playful.
    Oh, I see. Yeah, like the story I've told before about my ex-manager on my last job. I wrote down every bitchy and irresponsible thing she'd done since becoming a manager and emailed it to the district manager. The next day she was fired!

    What's funny is that my ISFJ coworker was amazed and asked for a copy of it because of how well written it was. She was having a hard time remembering anything so I wrote most of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    Anyways, your devilish function would be Te, and your aspirational one is Ti... I'm having trouble figuring out how to apply my hypothesis to that one though
    Huh? I thought my devilish function would be Ne and my aspirational one Ni. Right? Since it would go:

    Se Ti Fe Ni
    Si Te Fi Ne

    Anyway, that definitely makes sense. If aspirational is being used by the typical definition. I definitely aspire to being able to predict future events to figure out how to maneuver better in accordance with what's gonna happen. I also desire supernatural enlightenment sometimes (under a measure of control). Whenever someone like PinkPirahna talks about a vision she's had, I'm uber-intrigued and wish I could have one myself. On another forum we were talking about lucid dreams and I was so interested that I ended up having one. I can also listen to my INTJ friend talk about interesting subjects for hours.

    I hate generalizing though (isn't that something Ne does?) And I definitely can't follow my friend I talked about who's an ENTP when he talks about things in a complex way. I find it hard to guess what someone is talking about when they're being vague and find it hard to get general impressions about something or various interpretations. Sometimes I get sudden hunches (Ni) about what they mean, though, and if I follow that for some reason I end up getting an accurate understanding, which boggles my mind because I rely on reading sensory details directly to understand something.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Tyrant's Avatar
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    It doesn't make much sense to me because after the dominant and auxiliary roles, every other function is scattered.
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  9. #9
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    I don't remember well how the devilish function is supposed to work (and I'm too lazy to look it up right now), but for me Fi is a pure chaos function. Whenever I try to invoke it, I am at total loss, I can't spot what's of value for me and, since I can't just accept that I don't know what my priorities and values are, it's frustrating.

    I just go the easy way then, pick something that came out of frustration and that I believe that should be important for me and try to use it as a guide. Then Fe jumps in and questions everything, leaving me feeling overly selfish and horrible sort of person and even more frustrated.

    I guess I just haven't learnt to use Fi yet and that I have a really long way to go before I do.

  10. #10
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    My functions appear a little out of wack. Se is probably not used enough in my case.

    In any case, I usually have faith in my Ni. But sometimes, Si pops up and brings past experiences to mind (usually negative ones). The thing is though, and I'm starting to learn how to avoid this, when I act based on past negative experiences, they usually end up repeating themselves. Probably because Si makes them float around so much that I start thinking like I did when I made the mistake in the first place. So if I'm not careful, Si ends up making the same mistake again.
    Function Activity:
    Ni > Te > Ti = Fi > Ne > Si = Fe > Se

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