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  1. #81
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    If you truly want to analyze risks and dangers associated with recreational drug use, the most important factors that come to mind are education (knowing how much of what drug to take) and reliability of the drug's source.


    Oops, I just took a plunge into the political aspects. May as well..
    I'm with you most of the way, but some of them are open to effects that are lasting, which aren't nessesarily addition....

    Political becomes easy this subject so lets not go there....

  2. #82
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Decline...

    Safe enough to use, isn't the same as totally safe/side effect free (which would be a very tough call for anything even coffee has side effects).

    Canabis.... yes it does have possitive properties, and I totally agree they ar the safest of all the ones you listed...

    Effects of cannabis (5-10 puffs from one joint) involve feelings of relaxation, and decreased inhibitions. People may feel more outgoing and more talkative than usual and their level of concentration may become altered. Other effects include impaired balance, rapid heart beat, reddening of the eyes, increased appetite (also known as the "munchies"), dry mouth and throat, and drowsiness.

    Side effect With higher doses of cannabis typical effects may include feelings of fear, anxiety, panic, frightening hallucinations, and severe impairments of one's perception of time and space.

    I've got several mates who suffer from the side effects (but not hallucinations), they also got depressed and it brough out depressions in them.

    Depression can the the side effect of any drug....

    Quite a lot of the ones you listed have side effects, the causion of OK in the right doses doesn't negate that....

    To be honest I just called you out because even paracetamol has a possiblity of OD and side effects...
    I believe I covered the fact that cannabis alters your psychological state. It is a catalyst in that regard. I'm sorry it had such an effect on your friends, however I have friends that had the exact opposite reaction: they became a lot more anxiety free, and they began to see clarity in their life's focus- in effect, it was an antidepressant for them.

    Clearly, yes, all substances have an LD50. You can overdose on potatoes, you know. That doesn't mean that you cannot, for example, use paracetamol daily for your whole life without harm to your physical body. I'm obviously ignoring the habit-forming effects for that example, though I clearly stated in my previous post that with such narcotics, they are dangerous only in that right.

    Your gripe is that there are side effects to these recreational drugs? Of course, and I just listed them. However, certain drugs, as I discussed regarding cannabis, can be used for wholly positive effects. Maybe this is a mixture of luck and proper use? In my personal experience, I group dissociatives, psychedelics, and some narcotics in this category as well, as I've had nothing but positive experiences in their effects on me. Of course, one must be careful to administer them correctly and know full well what they're getting into..
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

  3. #83
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Great list The Decline. Thanks

    As far as government's policy vs. medical application I recommend reading a section of Ron Pauls (only Republican candidate in this last U.S. presidential election who was anti war, with strong libertarian leanings) book "The Revolution: a Manifesto". In it he describes the U.S. congressional hearings to outlaw marijuana. The only expert to testify pro illegalization was some obscure professor who testified that marijuana injections killed two dogs he test it on and that he tried and it turned him "into a bat" and was flying around in the rafters afterwards. The American Medical Association representative said that was bunk but congress "misinterpreted" him and claimed he said the AMA supports illegalization. The sole pro illegalization expert was also used in many criminal trials be criminal defense attorney' "expert wittness" to get their clients off on temporarily insanity pleas with the congressional sole experts "marijuana turned him into a bat" variations of his testimony at trials as an expert witness.

  4. #84
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Hash does have benefit and is used to treat the conditions you mentions where the benefits far outweigh the issues, but there are quite signficant issues with longer/heavier term use that are not lightweight...

    Regional brain abnormalities associated with long-...[Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2008] - PubMed Result

    CONCLUSIONS: These results provide new evidence of exposure-related structural abnormalities in the hippocampus and amygdala in long-term heavy cannabis users and corroborate similar findings in the animal literature. These findings indicate that heavy daily cannabis use across protracted periods exerts harmful effects on brain tissue and mental health.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scantilyclad View Post
    I also tried nitrous oxide once, but it didn't do anything except for make me laugh for a few seconds. I don't really like to be fucked up . I want to have complete control of my mind and body, and drugs seem to take that away from me.
    I'm sorry to hear about your bad personal experiences with drugs.

    About the nitrous oxide. The laughter is a common sign that you're doing it wrong. Hmmm, it's not difficult to do, but I'll not be posting how it has always worked for me on this forum, if you're really interested, google it or PM me.

  6. #86
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Hash does have benefit and is used to treat the conditions you mentions where the benefits far outweigh the issues, but there are quite signficant issues with longer/heavier term use that are not lightweight...

    Regional brain abnormalities associated with long-...[Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2008] - PubMed Result

    CONCLUSIONS: These results provide new evidence of exposure-related structural abnormalities in the hippocampus and amygdala in long-term heavy cannabis users and corroborate similar findings in the animal literature. These findings indicate that heavy daily cannabis use across protracted periods exerts harmful effects on brain tissue and mental health.
    That's funny, I find many reports that say that cognitive deficits are only the cause of short-term, reversible effects of cannabis use.

    The long-term use of cannabis, particularly at high intake levels, is associated with several adverse psychosocial features, including lower educational achievement and, in some instances, psychiatric illness. There is little evidence, however, that long-term cannabis use causes permanent cognitive impairment, nor is there is any clear cause and effect relationship to explain the psychosocial associations. There are some physical health risks, particularly the possibility of damage to the airways in cannabis smokers. Overall, by comparison with other drugs used mainly for recreational purposes, cannabis could be rated to be a relatively safe drug.
    - Oxford Dept of Pharmacology review

    ScienceDirect - Current Opinion in Pharmacology : Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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  7. #87
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I can't look at the sample/testing on that link... (no doubt we can spend all evening pinging cited research...)

    But even that one quote you have says there are impacts - it's not risk free..... it does have probelms several adverse psychosocial features, including lower educational achievement and, in some instances, psychiatric illness.

    The whole point is that are are risks.... even the softest has risks and possibities of damage... but it is the bottom run of the ladder (out of the really nasty stuff)..... Which I don't debate...

  8. #88
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scantilyclad View Post
    When i was a teenager, i drank some NyQuil with dr.pepper once. That was just plain retarded. I just slept for a really long time, and then woke up groggy. One time I took a 10 mg Vicodin, because that is what i was prescribed, and i got really tired, and sick to my stomach and i felt disconnected from my head. I also tried nitrous oxide once, but it didn't do anything except for make me laugh for a few seconds. I don't really like to be fucked up . I want to have complete control of my mind and body, and drugs seem to take that away from me. I've never actually done any hardcore drugs. I did grow up around drugs and watched pretty much everyone I've ever loved suffer from a drug addiction, so i'm pretty turned off by drugs personally.

    My boyfriend likes to have various drug experiences, and he always said it would be just a one time, recreational thing, and he did get highly addicted to oxy contin, which led to a lot of other opiates. Be careful please.
    Sorry Scanti....

    I'm arguing with the guys on the impact.... sorry for the debate swamping your post...

    I can really understand why you don't want to go down that route, and feel the same way myself, having seen first hand the impact of addiction on a population.

    The tipping point between experimenter and addict can be very difficult to manage especally around other people who are using. You have my empathy, not an easy place to be in. I hope you stay strong with your own goals....

  9. #89
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    um, drugs are bad.

    HOWEVER, I'm a veteran of psychedelic mediums. I would highly discourage use of psilocybin and lsd, especially if you're under the age of 21. Not that it's any more legal at 21 than at 17, but it's probably best to delay the use of drugs in any case.

    Shrooms are great if you can stand the stomach cramps and loss of sensation in your anal/pubic regions. It's not like lsd with the crazy geometric hallucinations, but everything looks and feels much different. I had a small dose once a few years ago and me and a few friends just laid back in the woods and watched the trees vibrating. they kind of looked like hair being combed in slow motion. weird. good luck, don't use the synthetic drugs, they seem to screw you up worse.

  10. #90
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    basic logic lesson: if you have a good or a bad trip, it tells you about the potential of a drug. it does not tell you, what drugs are generally like for everyone.

    and you do not need any study to know that some people are severely fucked up and others are saved, healed or enlightened by drugs. the study does not tell you, what will happen to YOU. because you might always be that one exception. you don't understand the richness of individuality of a human soul, if you think you can predict anything. like when they say, you have to be a "stable person". whuahaha. of course you are. and you are perfectly normal. and you don't know the first thing about who or what you really are.

    btw a reference for enlightenment through repetitive usage of LSD is Roshi Jun Po Denis Kelly. google him. and the number-one reference for healing is off course that stanislav grof guy. now for the guys who end up believing in aliens.... plenty of them. if your name is daniel pinchbeck you should play it save.

    i have been mildly fucked up by shrooms, btw. not by the chemicals either. by the opportunity to face my soul for hours in a state of heightened brain plasticity, which equals the opportunity to repress all of it. fun stuff. welcome born-again-zombi. and it's reflected in the brain of course. in depression like symptoms. this is what a repressed or lost soul might look like:



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