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  1. #71
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    The 16 year old stuff was Edinburgh - it's not so big on drugs these days... did you see trainspotter. My first comment post movie is it wasn't anywhere grim enough... Heronin at the time was REALLY, really grim.
    Yeah, I've met a heroin addict and it wasn't pretty. She was like the living dead.

  2. #72
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    Yeah, I've met a heroin addict and it wasn't pretty. She was like the living dead.
    Oh yes, actually it's true for most hard core addicts - they loose the ability to function properly..... their kids would live in absolute squallor

    At the time I was working after school in a district that was full of junkies, who were all stealling for their habit, abusing their families and generally making a real mess of themselves.... they had professional shop lifters (who would steal to order)

    There was a young chap, who was only about 14. His parents were both addicts and used to spend all the house hold money on drink and drugs and the 14 year old was left to fend for himself. He used to mug old ladies just to eat....so sad because he was 90% assured of growing into an adult who had a perminant stay at Her Magesty's pleasure. Appauled by his behaviour, I couldn't help being empathetic that he was a kid that hadn't got much alternative.

    Of course Aids helped clean up that particuar distric as it became more and more risky to be shooting up

  3. #73
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    ..........In the US

    There was a show on TV a few years back that showed the impact of speed and E and I think it was Coke on Mice......

    I beleive E did the most long ahul damage out those three - but it was a long while ago...
    I'm not saying all drugs have been poorly researched, but now try to find reliable studies on the physical and psychological effects of 2-CB or Salvia Divinorum.

    Once again. I'm not arguing that there could be health risks involved in taking any drugs. I'm just saying that due to bad policy risks are not properly assessed, and modern society is demonizing drugs based on scare tactics and governments' desire to hold control over it's people.

  4. #74
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Shimmy,

    We are both NT's, we're probably arguing the toss for the hell of it now... I'm not taking it personally and from the sound of you neither are you.

    Some drugs have been tested on their long terms effect, others haven't. Pretty much all drugs have an effect and a side effect, some of them long, some short.....

    Governments enforce the collective consiousness, the voters don't want a pro-drugs culture because they equate drugs to junkies and drug related crime (which you can't blame them for). Scoiety's laws are a representation of the collective view point.

    Alcohaul abuse/the impact of binge drinking is rising here because of 24 hour drinking (when they relaxed it in Scotland it didn't have that effect).

    The whole concept that the Government acts without representing the people seems ailen to the whole concept of democracy..... Sorry I'm getting heavy again... I need to diet...

  5. #75
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Oh PLEASE knock yourself out... I have great difficulty grasping that anything chemical has a possitive impact on health. Almost every medication created in a lab has a side effect/contra indication...

    I challenge that INTP mode ...
    Okay, I'll paint broad strokes here though, since many can be grouped together. I'll also be focusing on the more popularly used drugs.

    - Psychedelics: Many of these hallucinogens have either no LD50 or a high dose, though there are the few research chemicals that deviate from this trend. While drug scare tactics emphasize that psychedelics can bring out negative psychological state transitions, studies done with them in a psychotheraputic manner have concluded that they can be used to dramatically decrease the time that it takes for patients to have positive breakthrough experiences into healthier psychological states and progress in their own mental lives. Since there are so many psychedelics synthetically found, little testing has been done on these research chemicals, and the safety of all of them has not been verified. Even so, little negative detriments have been found thus far in that regard.

    - Dissociatives: Little research done here, but nothing negative aside from the flawed Olney's lesion conclusion. Ibogaine, DXM, Ketamine, Nitrous oxide, and others are safe to use correctly recreationally, given that their LD50's are generous enough for safe use. DXM and N2o are used for medicinal use on humans, and ketamine on animals. Ketamine and ibogaine has shown to be helpful fighting serious addiction.

    - Deleriants: Used to treat motion sickness (diphenhydramine), but can otherwise induce a state of extreme intoxication parallel to none- true hallucinations can form. This can sometimes not bode well for heavy dosers who may end up in an unpleasant mental state or otherwise not be able to interact with the world.

    - Marijuana: in a category of its own. Semi-psychedelic, semi-sedative, among other effects, this drug has plenty of medicinal uses, from treating MS, ADD, nausea, glaucoma & migranes, to helping drug addicts find a middle ground. It is probably the safest drug to use recreationally, and like psychedelics it can either help or hurt your psychological self.

    Potent narcotics: here's where I deviate a bit and group based on potency. My explanation is such: less potent forms of the same drug, such as opium compared to heroin, coca compared to cocaine, or amphetamine compared to methamphetamine, show an incredible difference in addictivity, and that is the main root cause of the dangers associated. These are the so-called "hard-drugs", which readily consume the users because of the their strong dopaminergic bonds that beg the user to continue using no matter what. The results are clearly dangerous. The lesser-potent forms are usually used medicinally or recreationally without these effects. Coca is used by natives to endure work stress, amphetamine is used to treat ADD, and opium and its various alkaloids has been used for pain relief for ages.

    Alcohol: I could've grouped this with dissociatives, but actually it's a bit different in effect. It's also more addictive and actually slightly toxic. Alcohol has been used for ages positively in small doses to reduce stress. However, it is also the cause of many health problems and is a significant factor in harmful (fatal) or criminal activity.

    Empathogens: Like psychedelics, they have been used in theraputic settings to expedite the rate of breakthrough experiences in patients. MDMA and MDA is slightly toxic, though other variants that are empathogens (MDMAI) act quite the same without this toxicity.

    Salvia: It's a damn mystery, though it seems to work in a strange dissociative manner. Nothing to speak of in terms of short term negativity or positivity, really.

    Benzodiazepines: These are psychological prescription drugs used to treat anxiety. They are heavily addictive, but some people find they help them cope with stress.

    Stimulants: Caffeine, amphetamines, etc etc. These are all addicting, but the levels of addiction varies depending on the substance. They help improve mental clarity and focus.

    That's about it. I've exhausted my INTP brain. Feel free to nit pick or add.
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  6. #76
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Shimmy,

    We are both NT's, we're probably arguing the toss for the hell of it now... I'm not taking it personally and from the sound of you neither are you.

    Some drugs have been tested on their long terms effect, others haven't. Pretty much all drugs have an effect and a side effect, some of them long, some short.....

    Governments enforce the collective consiousness, the voters don't want a pro-drugs culture because they equate drugs to junkies and drug related crime (which you can't blame them for). Scoiety's laws are a representation of the collective view point.

    Alcohaul abuse/the impact of binge drinking is rising here because of 24 hour drinking (when they relaxed it in Scotland it didn't have that effect).

    The whole concept that the Government acts without representing the people seems ailen to the whole concept of democracy..... Sorry I'm getting heavy again... I need to diet...
    Ah, the tyranny of the majority. Did you know that Hitler was elected democratically? As for for this discussion. I think it's turning a bit political for a drugs experience thread. Let me refer to Ayn Rand on this one.

    Quoted from wikipedia

    She maintained that since only an individual man can possess rights, the expression "individual rights" is a redundancy whereas the expression "collective rights" is a contradiction in terms. Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).
    But this thing is getting awfully political for a thread on personal drug experiences. I'm going to clean up my room and maybe we should start a new thread or find the old one about the political side of drugs.

  7. #77
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    wihtout collective rights there is no law and order, sot he individual needs to yeild to the masses - in order to maintain community.

    And did you know Hitler was considered to be a sex symbol of the day (on home ground I would think). We still don't get shown colour coverage/films of Hitler in this country - I wonder if there is some propoganda element to that.

  8. #78
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Decline...

    Safe enough to use, isn't the same as totally safe/side effect free (which would be a very tough call for anything even coffee has side effects).

    Canabis.... yes it does have possitive properties, and I totally agree they ar the safest of all the ones you listed...

    Effects of cannabis (5-10 puffs from one joint) involve feelings of relaxation, and decreased inhibitions. People may feel more outgoing and more talkative than usual and their level of concentration may become altered. Other effects include impaired balance, rapid heart beat, reddening of the eyes, increased appetite (also known as the "munchies"), dry mouth and throat, and drowsiness.

    Side effect With higher doses of cannabis typical effects may include feelings of fear, anxiety, panic, frightening hallucinations, and severe impairments of one's perception of time and space.

    I've got several mates who suffer from the side effects (but not hallucinations), they also got depressed and it brough out depressions in them.

    Depression can the the side effect of any drug....

    Quite a lot of the ones you listed have side effects, the causion of OK in the right doses doesn't negate that....

    To be honest I just called you out because even paracetamol has a possiblity of OD and side effects...

  9. #79
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    If you truly want to analyze risks and dangers associated with recreational drug use, the most important factors that come to mind are education (knowing how much of what drug to take) and reliability of the drug's source. Since addiction is a hugely significant source of drug deaths and harm, we can arrive at a conclusion that a weak education on what drugs are good or bad in terms of addiction are a source of this problem, as well as the persistence of a black market that thrives off a demand that isn't met by the use of other, safer drugs. Likewise, poor purity or even mislabeling can be dangerous for the drug user, and this is also an effect of drug prohibition. This is also not to mention that the reason for a black market and its associated criminal activity is a direct result of drug prohibition in the first place, which the user also associates with in one way or another.

    Oops, I just took a plunge into the political aspects. May as well..
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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  10. #80
    almost nekkid scantilyclad's Avatar
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    When i was a teenager, i drank some NyQuil with dr.pepper once. That was just plain retarded. I just slept for a really long time, and then woke up groggy. One time I took a 10 mg Vicodin, because that is what i was prescribed, and i got really tired, and sick to my stomach and i felt disconnected from my head. I also tried nitrous oxide once, but it didn't do anything except for make me laugh for a few seconds. I don't really like to be fucked up . I want to have complete control of my mind and body, and drugs seem to take that away from me. I've never actually done any hardcore drugs. I did grow up around drugs and watched pretty much everyone I've ever loved suffer from a drug addiction, so i'm pretty turned off by drugs personally.

    My boyfriend likes to have various drug experiences, and he always said it would be just a one time, recreational thing, and he did get highly addicted to oxy contin, which led to a lot of other opiates. Be careful please.
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