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  1. #111
    Senior Member Sacrator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wank View Post
    I've got to disagree with the comment saying salvia is a bad first choice of substance(posted a few pages ago I think)...
    It was my first and, after a fair bit of usage, allowed further experimentation in psys to be without fear.
    Salvia is a interesting drug. I read a book dedicated to it where the author researched its history all the way to its discovery. It was originally used by aboriginal shamans and was thought to bring them to the land of the dead. The author found the best way he used it was to take it with a blindfold on in a completely dark room and stay there till the high was gone. He said after about 1/2 a month to a month he started to experience himself going to other places where he was usually being analyzed by some sort of beings who would usually identify him as still alive but in the land of the dead. He said people would take care of him there as if he was like a baby or something and was often teased. I have had strange experiences with it once where i felt i heard my Grandma who passed away talking to me asking me what was going on like she woke up in some place where she didn't know where she was. It was so real that i had to push her away from me because the experience was almost traumatizing to me. After a little amount of uses i didn't touch it anymore because it seemed to get more and more nightmarish for me. Personally i don't believe any of its real but its strange what the mind can do when your on a unusual drug like salvia. If you think about getting it i recommend forking money over for the 20x to 40x extract and smoke it with a high heat lighter like a torch. But be prepared for a ride when it hits you its unlike anything you will ever experience.
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  2. #112
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Tinkerbell, it's a bit difficult to trudge through your post, but I picked out a few arguments of yours that I did understand. You say marijuana damages the brain, and allow me to correct you: that's complete bullshit.

    Let me google that for you

    Now pick out a scholarly, peer-reviewed article with a decent sample pool. I'll wait. Oh, and be wary of articles that claim "brain abnormalities" when they're really just changes they're interpreting as such. I mean, they have to come up with a conclusion in line with their grant-funder's ideologies, right? Coming up with results about how cannabis causes brain changes must be spun somehow, no? Maybe this is a good time to tell you about the neuroprotective effects of THC. Or how about its cancer-stunting properties?

    In the meantime I'll debunk your mental illness and marijuana causal argument:
    Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in ...[Schizophr Res. 2009] - PubMed Result
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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  3. #113
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Regional brain abnormalities associated with long-...[Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2008] - PubMed Result

    CONCLUSIONS: These results provide new evidence of exposure-related structural abnormalities in the hippocampus and amygdala in long-term heavy cannabis users and corroborate similar findings in the animal literature. These findings indicate that heavy daily cannabis use across protracted periods exerts harmful effects on brain tissue and mental health.
    = brain damage

    Surprise, we can provide research for both sides because it's such a political debate... Over and above research I've seen with my own eyes (countless times) the problems it causes, it's really neive to conseve that it doesn't...

    but hey we hit the end, the natural conclusion.... You put your case well

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    = brain damage

    Surprise, we can provide research for both sides because it's such a political debate... Over and above research I've seen with my own eyes (countless times) the problems it causes, it's really neive to conseve that it doesn't...

    but hey we hit the end, the natural conclusion.... You put your case well
    Yes, but there are arguments against such results:

    A 1998 report by INSERM and CNRS, which was directed by Dr. Pierre-Bernard Roques, determined that, "former results suggesting anatomic changes in the brain of chronic cannabis users, measured by tomography, were not confirmed by the accurate modern neuro-imaging techniques (such as MRI) ... Moreover, morphological impairment of the hippocampus [which plays a part in memory and navigation] of rat after administration of very high doses of THC was not shown.
    Not to mention that even if such results were to exist, you'd have to smoke more than 5 joints a day. And even then, IQ or other such measurements show only slight decline:

    A 2002 longitudinal study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal concluded that "marijuana does not have a long-term negative impact on global intelligence", and that "current marijuana use had a negative effect on global IQ score only in subjects who smoked 5 or more joints per week." In fact, current light users and former users showed larger IQ gains than those who had never used cannabis.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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  5. #115
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Decline

    This is now stalemate, there are 00's of peice of research arguing for and against... it gets dull REALLY quickly

    Short of me hauling a fair few to bits and vice-versa (any research is REALLY easy to pull to bits - also cos I'm a researcher I know all th pitfalls)... it then gets who an source yet another survey...

    I'd hate to say but I knew we'd get here when we started.

    Good chat though

  6. #116
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    All I have to say is that the research against marijuana has a genuine advantage: funding by interest groups who feel the need to demonize it. In spite of this, there's a remarkable wealth of findings that show marijuana to be positive to your health.

    In one instance, the U.S. government censored a report that indicated the tumor-eradicating effects of THC. 22. U.S. Government Repressed Marijuana-Tumor Research | Project Censored

    In another instance, a team of researchers who had been studying marijuana for 30 years, hypothesized that marijuana would cause lung cancer based on previous research. They found that there was no cancer link, and that actually there are protective effects: Researchers surprised to find no link between marijuana, lung cancer -Lung Cancer news-

    I suppose if you indeed smoke more than 5 joints a day, you're already doing something wrong, so your IQ indeed should be impaired. But for light users having a slightly higher global IQ score than control? Despite the decreased blood flow to certain centers of the brain, marijuana seems to be doing something right.

    I almost feel the need to somewhat explain my vehement defense of marijuana. I rarely smoke it, so that's not the issue. I suppose I feel the need to back up the under-class in situations where an appeal to the status quo or otherwise to a mainstream opinion could be the only reason for someone forming an opinion on something. I enjoy giving a side a fair shot in an intellectual forum, and I feel that marijuana, in all fairness, has not been given proper defense in its scientific validity as being a safe and productive medicine. I mean really, for a recreational drug it does damn well. If you take a moment to compare how terrible alcohol is for you and society, then you may start to appreciate marijuana as a viable alternative.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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  7. #117
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post

    I suppose if you indeed smoke more than 5 joints a day, you're already doing something wrong, so your IQ indeed should be impaired. .
    MEAOW......

    Em, I beleive we suffer from singificantly less government sensoring over here... but the bottom line really is research for and against possibly in relatively even amounts...

    MJ is a great analgestics for some very difficult to treat conditions. There are certain things I'd let the accupunturist do faster than the Western medic because the medicine doens't work well. MJ fits where Western med falls down in specific places, but it's not risk free by any strech. If a person had certain medical , conditions here in the UK, it would be difficult to prosecute unless they thought you were farming the stuff.

    Now-a-days they don't arest you for possession of MJ which is giving it unlegislated approval, which may be the solution.

    For occational recreational use it's the lest troublesome of the substances on the thread. But thats not risk free.

    Personally, I'd say try it, but don't become a regular user because it really does have issues....


    NOTE to the Op..... Many of the posts on this thread are from Guys. For your own saftey, factor in when taking anything, that womens bodies respond to different amounts of any substance... so don't over do it, and keep safe, make the wises possible choices and have some grounded friends around.

  8. #118
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    check out these images:

    Gallery :: VISIONS :: NewSalvia
    Gallery :: VISIONS :: totemikweb

    but do not make the mistake to believe that taking drugs will have you witness awesome "images". brilliant people may experience it that way (not exactly like images either, but at least as a "whole that is witnessed"), but a beginner should expect the worst. why? remember there are only a hand full of artists in the world who can paint such images. there is a reason for that. now look at the brown mushy part at the bottom of the second image. imagine you have forgotten that you are a human being. you are one of those brown pixels in the image, and your life consists of slowly moving around the chin of that grimy face. each time you make a full circle you die, your memory is reset, you awake in the same position and it goes on, in circles. after some rounds your memory survives the little deaths. after a while you remember that there is in deed more than this and you should get back to what ever that is. eventually you remember being human, except you are not, not now. too bad. it will take some more circles until you break out of the vision. savia divinorum is anti depressant only because it teaches you, that it is fucking great to be alive, compared to being the dirt under the fingernail of an angel. the universe is work. being alive is the fruit of the work. of a lot of work, most of which was not done by "you". you do not want to be depressive and think about suicide. you want to be afraid of suicide, of throwing it all away. this is my personal interpretation. i don't know where the love is, in this game. i am sure it is there, somewhere, because i look up to the spirits of great mystics who talk about it, but if it has not been there for me, in my visions, it means that its not there for everyone at every point in after-life spiritual experience. because it's subjective and you are not gifted (presented) with that subjectivity, unless you happen to be. you are not going to be gifted with it, just because you want to be, or because you have just killed yourself, with the romantic expectation to find it there. there are rules for how to get to a place that allows you to see 'it all' in a 'lovely light'. 99,9% of reality is under causal law, so there are no gifts for everyone, there is just work, mostly nature work, evolution and angel work, some human work and the fruit of it all.

  9. #119
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    We have been very successful here in reducing cigarette smoking. And the government is continuing the campaign by raising the tax on smoking so a pack of thirty will cost twenty dollars.

    So it would seem anomalous to legalise marijuana.

    I hasten to add that although the possession of small amounts is illegal, we never prosecute anyone for personal possession. So we don't have large numbers in goal for personal possession.

    Smoking is now becoming socially unacceptable and even in an outdoor cafe a smoker will ask permission before lighting up.

    And if the active constituents of marijuana do have health benefits, I would expect that they would be prescribed just like any other medicine.

    But the truth is that marijuana enhances sexuality and that's why it is so popular. It's all about sex and drugs. The health aspect is just good propaganda.

    But imagine if the proponents of marijuana said they wanted it for sex, they would have the advantage of truth, but lose the sympathy of the public.

    But if they say they want it for a poor person dying of cancer, then they get immediate sympathy.

    If they say they want it for self indulgence, they become ridiculous. But if they say they want it to help cancer patients, they are taken seriously.

    It is fascinating to see the difference between what we want and what we will say to get it.

  10. #120
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    MEAOW......

    Em, I beleive we suffer from singificantly less government sensoring over here... but the bottom line really is research for and against possibly in relatively even amounts...

    MJ is a great analgestics for some very difficult to treat conditions. There are certain things I'd let the accupunturist do faster than the Western medic because the medicine doens't work well. MJ fits where Western med falls down in specific places, but it's not risk free by any strech. If a person had certain medical , conditions here in the UK, it would be difficult to prosecute unless they thought you were farming the stuff.

    Now-a-days they don't arest you for possession of MJ which is giving it unlegislated approval, which may be the solution.

    For occational recreational use it's the lest troublesome of the substances on the thread. But thats not risk free.

    Personally, I'd say try it, but don't become a regular user because it really does have issues....


    NOTE to the Op..... Many of the posts on this thread are from Guys. For your own saftey, factor in when taking anything, that womens bodies respond to different amounts of any substance... so don't over do it, and keep safe, make the wises possible choices and have some grounded friends around.
    No, you misunderstand me. There really IS a lot of funding put into demonizing marijuana. Conservative groups and government research groups constitute a huge pool of funding for anyone who can provide further reasoning for why marijuana should remain illegal. Not only that, but anyone who wishes to study the drug in America must pass NIDA's approval, and receive their marijuana strictly from them. Researchers looking for marijuana's positive effects have been turned down.
    Current restrictions on marijuana research are absurd | NowPublic News Coverage

    And as for medicinal applications, marijuana takes the lead as far as side-effect free risks. Aside from the obvious psychoactive component, it far outweighs other treatments for diseases that it treats as far as side effects.

    And being a woman does not particularly change the way that drugs interact with you. Everyone is unique in some regard (see: MBTI ), and it's more about bodyweight that will determine strength of dosage, which is an obviously huge factor. Unless you can think of specific hormones effects of certain drugs, I don't see what you're getting at here.

    But the truth is that marijuana enhances sexuality and that's why it is so popular. It's all about sex and drugs. The health aspect is just good propaganda.

    But imagine if the proponents of marijuana said they wanted it for sex, they would have the advantage of truth, but lose the sympathy of the public.

    But if they say they want it for a poor person dying of cancer, then they get immediate sympathy.

    If they say they want it for self indulgence, they become ridiculous. But if they say they want it to help cancer patients, they are taken seriously.
    I disagree. People have been wanting marijuana legal for recreational use for a long time. Public opinion has been strong in at least decriminalizing it, as plenty of people know that marijuana is a recreational drug at least on par with alcohol (well, those who haven't been brainwashed by misinformation).

    As for medical benefits, they're pretty clear. My mother has Multiple Sclerosis, and I must personally say that it's fucking cruel of the government to prevent her from getting the most effective treatment for her disease simply because of a drug war.

    And sex and marijuana? People actually have tried that angle. I recall an article mentioning that a group got this ad put on a few public buses for a short period of time:


    Personally it does nothing for me in bed (alcohol is better), but I've heard others say it does, so they have a point and it seems they're not ashamed to appeal to the mainstream in such a way.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
    Ti
    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

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