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  1. #1
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Default A Senser checks out MBTIc...

    What follows is a loosely translated and tightly edited transcript of a chat with my ISFJ friend.

    ---

    Economica: Btw, I followed up on the ISFJ description at hiddenpsyche...: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/57785-post8.html

    Economica: The guy behind the test wrote me to say he agrees with the assessment and that he actually got an ISFJ friend to write 80% of it because he was in a rush. He also completely agrees with the unflattering way S types are generally described. When he has the time, the descriptions will get better

    Friend: Sounds good.

    Friend: I'm impressed that you remember my reactions to the description

    Friend: I like developer's post

    (...)

    Friend: I read the thread. The tone isn't exactly nice all the way through. And some people seem kind of arrogant

    Economica: Yeah, it's partly because it's an anonymous message board and partly because there's a lot of prejudice and venting against Sensers... Which is ironic in that thread

    Friend: Are there any other threads you can recommend?

    Economica: Yeah, I'll send you links tomorrow

    (...)

    Economica: First and foremost I recommend this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...certitude.html

    Economica: It's a thread I've started about 'closed-minded certitude' which I claim is a common problem area for INXJs and especially for INTJs. The thread was sparked by my own realization of how bad I used to be at shutting off critical input and bulldozing others with my view of reality

    Friend: Okay - sounds interesting. As far as I can see there are plenty of INTJs on the board so I look forward to seeing how they received it

    Economica: Not very well. Mostly they just ignored it

    Friend: I found a thread about ISFJs and how horrible they are. It's not always fun to see how good people are at putting others down, especially when they think they know all people of a type just because they know one

    Economica: Yeah, unfortunately there's a lot of prejudicial negativity and venting on the board

    Economica: (I describe ptgatsby's blog post #29 and add that blogs are members-only.)

    Friend: Okay. I don't know if I dare sign up now, especially if I have to state that I'm an ISFJ. I'm actually pretty disappointed with the attitude some of them have. I don't want to be in a situation where I have to defend my type and especially my S which apparently isn't very popular.

    Economica: That's too bad, but I understand. Sensers are exposed on the board. There's a handful of people who hand out reality checks but not enough of them to balance things out

    Economica: Would it be okay with you if I translated and posted this chat? I'd like to demonstrate how we're missing out on S members because of all the prejudice and venting

    Friend: Sure

    ---

  2. #2
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    What do you mean "translated"? Did they say it using colloquialisms or a foreign language? Or do you just mean translated into Intuitive-style language from Sensor-style language?

  3. #3
    Wait, what? Varelse's Avatar
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    :shoots self in foot:
    We are not poets
    We have no right to make amendments

  4. #4
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Default

    It's not very shocking ...

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    EDIT: She probably means "transcribed" and/or formatted (with the irrelevant material "edited out") for this particular thread topic.

    She meant what she said! (lol)

    * * *

    Thank you for including the link to Ptgatsby's rant. Somehow I had missed that entire post (it was right before I went on vacation in August, and who knows where my head had been at that time).

    I'm going to read it again later, Pt. It was very humbling and there's a lot there I'd like to think about. I don't even know how to respond to it or if I need to voice a response, I would probably mar what you shared if I did so. Thank you for letting yourself cut loose and dump everything for us to see, without processing and editing a lot out. That was magnificent.

    As far as this thread goes: I appreciate hearing what someone's ISFJ friend has to say, even if things seemed to be rather loaded in how things were framed to her.

    Honestly, I don't participate much in threads like this anymore because I have nothing to contribute that won't end up sounding like arguing or just contribute to the habitual unrest going on. I'm tired of N's treating S's like second-class shit, and I'm tired of the S's returning the favor and treating all the N's like shit preemptively. And then I'm tired of N's treating other N's like shit because they think N's too often treat S's like shit... and at this point, I'm going to stop because, yes, it's getting that convoluted and confusing to me.

    So when I'm silent, it's not because I don't care... but because anything I say (beyond what I have) is going to be wrong in some way and/or just contribute to the problem. If continued conversation will in some way help everyone to make the forums better, however, please continue.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    What do you mean "translated"?
    We chatted in our native language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    As far as this thread goes: I appreciate hearing what someone's ISFJ friend has to say, even if things seemed to be rather loaded in how things were framed to her.
    Please clarify?

    ---

    BBL. I'm off to explore the mind of the female INTP by watching Daria.

  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    We chatted in our native language.
    What was your native language?

  8. #8
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm going to read it again later, Pt. It was very humbling and there's a lot there I'd like to think about. I don't even know how to respond to it or if I need to voice a response, I would probably mar what you shared if I did so. Thank you for letting yourself cut loose and dump everything for us to see, without processing and editing a lot out. That was magnificent.
    GAH, NTs. I'll never figure out how you guys decide what is good or bad writing. That was the last thing I expected to have people write about.

    Anyway, I certainly don't feel it is special, so please ask/comment/whatever.

    If continued conversation will in some way help everyone to make the forums better, however, please continue.
    I've thought about this for a long time, and I think the only step that is going to actually improve it is a long discussion/article that talks about MBTI stereotypes and why they are wrong.

    This has been mostly impossible due to the nature of INTPc, where... how do you say... equality isn't a concern. Maybe it would work here. I can't write it - not even sure if it can be written. When I write things like that, I draw upon other systems and the end result is an utter mess. It becomes an attack on MBTI when it should be an attack on people misuing MBTI.

    But... I think most are aware that the core problem stems from the MBTI descriptions - not the official ones but the dozens of descriptions all over the net that people refer to. The biases that people bring to the table are magnified by selectively choosing bits and pieces of the descriptions.

    People are people - you can change N and S around in your description to "men" and "women", or "atheist" and "religious"... it still works. Worse, when someone posts suggestive content against a type, railing against it tends to simply cause the individual to withdraw - most don't like changing their stereotyped theories... few do.

  9. #9
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    It would be better if she got on here and showed us the positive aspects of the type rather than not coming for fear of being looked down on. (for the record, though, I like ISFJs)
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    GAH, NTs. I'll never figure out how you guys decide what is good or bad writing.
    I am not speaking as an NT right now, I don't know what functions I'm using, and honestly I do not even care.

    It simply reached me.

    (live with it. )

    I've thought about this for a long time, and I think the only step that is going to actually improve it is a long discussion/article that talks about MBTI stereotypes and why they are wrong.

    This has been mostly impossible due to the nature of INTPc, where... how do you say... equality isn't a concern. Maybe it would work here. I can't write it - not even sure if it can be written... (etc)
    If we are willing to make a go of this and redefine/clarify/clean up the system, I am willing to have a go at it with you (and whoever else feels up to the task).

    I know and trust your command of the details of this and other systems, as well as all the research you've done and how much clarity you have with raw facts (you probably have no idea how seriously I take your comments when you post something, even if I seem to gloss over things sometimes), and I also know that I'm good at communicating ideas, being fair, and translating truckloads of details into concepts.

    Yes, it's intimidating -- my mouth is going dry even as I am posting this -- and I do not even know if it can be done, as you admit. I certainly know I could never do it alone.

    But anyway... fwiw.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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