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  1. #1
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Default Lessons for Intuitards/Sensotards

    I love that word so much, thumbs up to the guy that coined it!

    What I'm thinking is that my ISTJ friend Dave is a bit of an intuitard. He can never estimate or guess anything, he always needs instructions for everything he does from opening a can of beans to using a different brand of coffee, to taking a train to any destination or buying a vacuum cleaner... you get the idea.

    Dave and I have talked about it and he's good humoured about it, he laughs and admits he's an intuitard. I've also admitted to being a Sensotard, so we agreed to think of ways to give each other handy hints for improving our inferior functions, his and mine being Ne and Si respectively.

    I came up with this idea of using my kettle to teach Dave to use his intuition. My kettle is opaque, whilst most in the UK have a little transparent guage for you to see how much water is in there. We don't like to use too much water because it wastes energy and makes you have to wait longer for your tea, and tea is important to Brits, especially Dave. For years he's refused to make tea in my apartment because he's scared of my opaque kettle and not putting the right amount of water in it.

    But last night I made him lose is intuition virginity. I taught him to begin by taking a few cups of average teacup size and fill them with water from the tap/faucet. I encouraged him to close his eyes and get a feel for the sound of the faucet, of the water stream, the weight of the cup in his hand, the movements of his hands and wrists as he turned on the faucet and turned it off again, running it for just the right amount of time to fill a cup until he could do it with his eyes closed.

    Then I got him to hold the kettle under the tap and fill it with two cupfuls-worth of water, plus a little bit more to account for evapouration, and after a few abortive attempts, he got it right. His face lit up as he poured the water out into the teacups and found just the right amount, and he beamed as I applauded his first ever active use of intuition.

    I thought I'd share this with you, in the hope that other intuitards might find it useful. And also in the hope that they might provide some means whereby we Sensotards can move in the other direction.

    Whaddayathink?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  2. #2
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    What - no replies?

    You bitches!! :steam:

    Oh well. I thought it was a good idea anyway
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #3
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    Hey! That's my word! :p

    But last night I made him lose is intuition virginity. I taught him to begin by taking a few cups of average teacup size and fill them with water from the tap/faucet. I encouraged him to close his eyes and get a feel for the sound of the faucet, of the water stream, the weight of the cup in his hand, the movements of his hands and wrists as he turned on the faucet and turned it off again, running it for just the right amount of time to fill a cup until he could do it with his eyes closed.

    Then I got him to hold the kettle under the tap and fill it with two cupfuls-worth of water, plus a little bit more to account for evapouration, and after a few abortive attempts, he got it right. His face lit up as he poured the water out into the teacups and found just the right amount, and he beamed as I applauded his first ever active use of intuition.
    I could be mistaken but that sounds more like Se to me.

  4. #4
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    My ISTP husband has taught me a lot about not having to be so precise and measure everything perfectly. I learned by watching him estimate things and have successful results that I could try it, too. He used to complain about me being so stuck to a recipe, and now notices that I have relaxed enough to be a little more flexible and not so exactly precise. I still have to measure a lot of things, but that's because I know I am so bad at estimating measurements. And sometimes the quantities do need to be somewhat precise. Overall, I am glad I have learned to relax in that area.

    Just this week, I helped someone put up pictures on her wall. I just stood back, estimated the middle of the couch, walked forward, up on the couch, put my finger on the wall, and voila - the middle.

    The old me would have HAD to get a tape measure and measure the couch, and find the EXACT center of the couch, then find a way to extend that point upwards toward the ceiling where the nail was going to go - a grueling ordeal - measure the space over the couch, measure the painting, measure off a distance from the ceiling, placing the picture in the space with 35% of the space above the frame, and 65% of the space below the frame.

    What helped me change in that area is one time I had spent a LOT of time measuring and marking off only to come to find when I was done that when I stepped back and looked at it, it may have been perfectly centered, but it wasn't aesthetically centered. That's what helped me to trust my own sense of space and levels and what's comfortable on the eyes. I hung a BUNCH of pictures this week in about 25% of the time it used to take me.

    My biggest obstacle in learning to relax with measurements was perfectionism and the fear of not being perfect - because not perfect=failure.
    I still deal with this but I have come a very long way.

  5. #5
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Well I suppose I'm a complete sensotard then... interesting term, sensotard... kind of rolls of your tongue. :P I get overwhelm by sensory stimuli quite easily. So I've been forcing myself to work on it by playing StepMania... Trying to see how much flashing lights, arrows, loud music I can tolerate. I think I'm making some progress. :P

  6. #6
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    The old me would have HAD to get a tape measure and measure the couch, and find the EXACT center of the couch, then find a way to extend that point upwards toward the ceiling where the nail was going to go - a grueling ordeal - measure the space over the couch, measure the painting, measure off a distance from the ceiling, placing the picture in the space with 35% of the space above the frame, and 65% of the space below the frame.
    Haha... that reminds me of the relationship between me and the ISTJ. I remember when I had a T-shirt that I wanted to do a design on. He liked the design and said he'd do one too.

    Two days later we met up at the pub. I was wearing my t-shirt. He asked how come I'd done it already, since his was still in the planning stages - he needed to get some transparency stuff to print out his image onto, so he could cut a stencil and use it to paint the t-shirt. I said I just painted it right on, freehand, and you should've seen his face... haha...

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    I could be mistaken but that sounds more like Se to me.
    It could be, could be! Dammit, now you're messing with my head... No I dunno, I don't think it is when I do it, cos I could do it with my eyes closed and my ears blocked up. I'm not sure actually - there seems to be quite a bit of crossover when it comes to what Se and Ne can do.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #7
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Well I suppose I'm a complete sensotard then... interesting term, sensotard... kind of rolls of your tongue. :P I get overwhelm by sensory stimuli quite easily. So I've been forcing myself to work on it by playing StepMania... Trying to see how much flashing lights, arrows, loud music I can tolerate. I think I'm making some progress. :P
    I tolerate them fine - they just don't tend to mean much to me. I don't feel at all overwhelmed by things like that.

    I'm really actually not sure now that sassafrassquatch has pointed it out, where Ne and Se overlap and where the points are where they fail to compensate for lack of either one!?

    All I can think of at the moment, for some reason, is how my buddies and I have often over the years raced cars on an old track nearby, and it always tends to be a close call when it comes to who's best, between the ESxP's and ENxP's. It seems to depend on individual races and events that happen during them - where situations that have required immediate perception of and adaptation to future events have played a big part in the race, the N's have won every time, while the ones that required an immediate reaction to something unexpected and unforeseeable seem to be the S's forte.

    It seems that though me and my SP buddies seem to function very similarly when it comes to dealing with external stimuli quite efficiently, there is some sort of difference that's hard to put my finger on. I think the key lies in the fact that after the event, you can ask them about what happened and they can take you back through, step by step, what they did. Meanwhile, I have no recollection or idea what I did, or how I did it - I just did it.

    And I also seem to function even better in those situations when I'm distracted by something else, whilst they seem to need to focus and get thrown by distractions. The distractions help me to um, well... I dunno... they help me to not think about what I'm doing and just do it.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #8
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I can confirm that distractions usually help me--when I'm not focused on something, I tend to do it almost "perfectly"

  9. #9
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I'm really actually not sure now that sassafrassquatch has pointed it out, where Ne and Se overlap and where the points are where they fail to compensate for lack of either one!?
    I was just thinking about your kettle incident... Ne is used when solving a problem under different conditions by simultaneously adjusting multiple variables without feedback. So in terms of knowing when to stop the tap with a different size kettle, with a different flow rate, when you want more or less tea by eyeballing the tap would be Ne. But if you're measuring by weight... that's Se. For example, if you give me a black kettle and ask me to make 2 cups of tea. I need to know approximately how much 1 cup holds. Then pour that 2 cups of water into the kettle at a similar rate as a normal tap... then just watch the tap flow and shake the kettle full of water to figure out how to do it the next time. But if you ask me to hold the kettle under the tap and do it by weight... I would fail completely.

    It seems that though me and my SP buddies seem to function very similarly when it comes to dealing with external stimuli quite efficiently, there is some sort of difference that's hard to put my finger on. I think the key lies in the fact that after the event, you can ask them about what happened and they can take you back through, step by step, what they did. Meanwhile, I have no recollection or idea what I did, or how I did it - I just did it.
    Perhaps that has to do with Si being your shadow function...

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