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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Perhaps we're just thinking too hard about matters.

    For whatever reason, a person feels good for helping others. They do not necessarily do it just to "feel that good feeling," although it certainly doesn't hurt that they feel that way and it might spur them on to do the good deeds.

    We do ANYTHING in life because we have a desire -- an unmet need/want -- and fulfilling the desire helps satisfy the need. Why is the desire there in the place? I don't know the answer to that.

    Are some of us simply biologically wired that way? Maybe, maybe not.

    Is there something metaphysical going on? Maybe, maybe not.

    Taking it down to that level seems to not answer any questions. It's rather like the issue of free will: Regardless of whether I actually have it, I *feel* as if I do, and so I choose to do and say things that possess meaning (according to my definition of such).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    A very simple, yet deep question: What exactly is the point of giving to anyone if you don't get anything in return?
    Most Feeling types and some Thinking types get a sense of internal happiness from helping other people due to their personal values.

    Also, they might think better of you, be less likely to act against your interests, and possibly even help you out if you need it.

    It's probably nothing you need to concern yourself with, it doesn't really serve a logical purpose... it's pretty much emotion.

  3. #33
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    I'm afraid I do not follow.

    By having concern for others (or that which does not relate to yourself), you lose touch with the self. So in essence, helping others is abandoning your own soul (in modern terms, the "soul" is the "psyche").

    By not helping others, you keep your innocence and independence.

    Altruistic people have no sense of self.

  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I'm afraid I do not follow.

    By having concern for others (or that which does not relate to yourself), you lose touch with the self. So in essence, helping others is abandoning your own soul (in modern terms, the "soul" is the "psyche").
    No... I wouldn't help people in a way that could interfere with something I wanted for myself. And I enjoy helping others, so it's not a loss to myself, because in a sense I'm actually doing it for myself and my dignity. You don't get that? Well, that's probably because it's just not your style.

  5. #35
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Altruistic people have no sense of self.
    ...which is the goal of traditional Catholic Christianity - a system to which I heavily subscribe - achieved

    I believe other spiritualities/belief systems equally advocate the detachment from one's ego as a means of spirifual fulfilment and self-actualisation.

    It's my dearest wish to lose all sense of self, for my 'self' to be subsumed into the 'self' of God, so that my actions are his actions, as St Francis said:

    "I beseech Thee, O Lord, that the fiery and sweet strength of Thy love may absorb my soul from all things that are under heaven, that I may die for love of Thy love as Thou didst deign to die for love of my love."


    (somehow I don't expect you to get this... haha )
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    ...which is the goal of traditional Catholic Christianity - a system to which I heavily subscribe - achieved

    I believe other spiritualities/belief systems equally advocate the detachment from one's ego as a means of spirifual fulfilment and self-actualisation.

    It's my dearest wish to lose all sense of self, for my 'self' to be subsumed into the 'self' of God, so that my actions are his actions, as St Francis said:

    "I beseech Thee, O Lord, that the fiery and sweet strength of Thy love may absorb my soul from all things that are under heaven, that I may die for love of Thy love as Thou didst deign to die for love of my love."


    (somehow I don't expect you to get this... haha )
    I must have missed this part if you mentioned it before...

    I never looked at a typical ENTP as subscribing to any sort of religious doctrine...

  7. #37
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    A very simple, yet deep question: What exactly is the point of giving to anyone if you don't get anything in return?
    Peace. The point is peace.
    When I go to the coffee house I want the coffee to be coffee and not water that is called coffee. So I do not only tip double, I pay double.
    You have to hand the money out, man. Learn it now.

    They have the coffee in the coffee shop, see? How to get them to put the coffee in the cup? Very simple. By the double price. And tip double in addition.

    And when you see the beggar approaching, have the money ready. Then you do not need to listen to the stories.

    The trick is:

    HAND THE MONEY OUT IMMEDIATELY.

    Never tarry.

    THEN YOU HAVE PEACE

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Peace. The point is peace.
    When I go to the coffee house I want the coffee to be coffee and not water that is called coffee. So I do not only tip double, I pay double.
    You have to hand the money out, man. Learn it now.

    They have the coffee in the coffee shop, see? How to get them to put the coffee in the cup? Very simple. By the double price. And tip double in addition.

    And when you see the beggar approaching, have the money ready. Then you do not need to listen to the stories.

    The trick is:

    HAND THE MONEY OUT IMMEDIATELY.

    Never tarry.

    THEN YOU HAVE PEACE
    This made absolutely no sense...

    On the other hand, I'd be preserving my own peace by not helping anyone.

    Worrying about your own wants and needs preserves your peace.

    People must learn to worry about themselves and not other people.

  9. #39
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    This made absolutely no sense...

    On the other hand, I'd be preserving my own peace by not helping anyone.

    Worrying about your own wants and needs preserves your peace.

    People must learn to worry about themselves and not other people.
    No.
    People do not have to worry about a thing.

    I never worry.
    Why?
    The answer:
    I do not have to.
    Why?
    The answer:

    I PAY THE DOUBLE PRICE.

  10. #40
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    This made absolutely no sense...

    On the other hand, I'd be preserving my own peace by not helping anyone.

    Worrying about your own wants and needs preserves your peace.

    People must learn to worry about themselves and not other people.
    A bit sardonic... but sadly true in many situations. As dangerous, cunning, and selfish as people can be, sometimes all you can do to survive is outwit them by becoming like them, and looking out for number one... and I don't mean William Riker either. I don't like to do that, but I guess if it really came down to me or them... I'll choose me, if for no reason other than instinct and a more complete knowledge/understanding of my own will.

    I dream of a better world... but in the present one, you're right.

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