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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default Today I have murdered my feelings

    I feel extreme, overwhelming contempt against my client who has been extremely unhelpful in specifying how he would like the order delivered. It's a web site I have to deliver. We've agreed not to demand financial sanctions from each other - the mutual damage done balances out, approximately. Perhaps I've suffered more directly, and he more indirectly. Nasty shit anyhow.

    He has a view of himself as benevolent and reasonable person, which seems to have motivated him to offer some shit he considers "good deals": work for 30eur/hour, but he'll probably initially refuse to accept 2/3 of my work, trying to make me work 3 hours for the price of one. Giving "good recommendations" for his business partners, probably with a hint that I'm a sucker to be abused financially.

    At least he has the self-image of benevolence, which makes him try to co-operate (unskillfully).

    Oh life could not suck any more. I have to work a week for free (hiring attorney would cost more) and I have to pamper for his feelings as well. Life could absolutely not be any more insane.

    My feelings of justice would have me call it quits and have him bankrupted. (the two are not related, I can't cause him that much financial harm by quitting from the deal).

    So, he won. Oh my fucking god. I'm mad both because loosing yet a week of my time, which I could do to work in another project with a better pay. I could use this time building a good reputation for a good client instead of this one. Still I'm wasting 45 minutes in here ranting about a case I can't do nothing about.

    I have been beaten, and I've beaten myself because of it to the point of sickness. I'll probably be able to resume working at the point when I feel nothing.

  2. #2
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Do you think he would bring you to court if you were not to deliver his website?

  3. #3
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I need the payment from the work too much to do that.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Never underestimate the importance of a good Requirements document.

    (Then again, any disputes would still have to be sorted out by the system, so we are back to the "legal fee" problem.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well, this is one situation. Is there anything you can do to prevent this from happening in future contracts, or are you always going to be at the mercy of the client like this? It sounds like too much room for interpretation was left in the original document. What you should do is write out exactly what you'll do and how you'll do it ahead of time, and make them sign a document saying that that's acceptable. And be very specific, don't leave any loopholes, perhaps even going so far as to define every single word before it's used. A lawyer might be helpful in writing up such a thing.

    Out of curiosity, why would someone even bother pay another person to create a website for them? It's fairly easy, if you have the XHTML and CSS books, a code validation tool, several versions of different browsers as test platforms, and perhaps a WYSIWYG editor to expedite things a bit. Are people that lazy? On the other hand, I guess a lot of entrepreneurs capitalize on people's laziness, so that's not a bad technique.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Razorcut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Out of curiosity, why would someone even bother pay another person to create a website for them? It's fairly easy, if you have the XHTML and CSS books, a code validation tool, several versions of different browsers as test platforms, and perhaps a WYSIWYG editor to expedite things a bit. Are people that lazy? On the other hand, I guess a lot of entrepreneurs capitalize on people's laziness, so that's not a bad technique.


    Making a website might be easy for many of you youngsters.
    However the average business does not staff anyone even close to having the abilities to create a website.
    We employ about 90 people here and I am the most prolific at software and still find that website creation lives in another ballpark. We do employ a high-end programmer yet he would have no time to delve into the depths required for a web adventure. So from my perspective it is a valued vocation.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorcut View Post
    Making a website might be easy for many of you youngsters.
    However the average business does not staff anyone even close to having the abilities to create a website.
    We employ about 90 people here and I am the most prolific at software and still find that website creation lives in another ballpark. We do employ a high-end programmer yet he would have no time to delve into the depths required for a web adventure. So from my perspective it is a valued vocation.
    Exactly.

    It also depends on the business involved, what needs have to be addressed by the website, and so forth. (For example, if you're all concerned about security issues, the programming difficulty just bumped up a few notches. This is not 1996 any longer, in terms of web site design, dev, and implementation.)

    And really, people trying to run a business need to focus on running their business. We all only have so much time and mental energy. Just because a person is capable of learning how to do something doesn't mean it is an effective use of time and resources to do it themselves.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    So, when you say website design, you mean you're responsible for server and firewall configuration, perhaps even SSL certificates and cookies, as well as just designing the web pages and such? That's a lot to do... even though I could probably figure that out, I would really not want to be responsible for all of that on a high-traffic website. They're actually having a single individual set all of this up? That must be stressful.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Yeah, I know where your at.

    I have many issues when I have stuff designed, invariably I have to beat them to get what I want. (Even the beating takes time, energy and money).

    Biggest problem is that the client doesn't know what they want... and they never will as they aren't generally techies...

    I think website designers have a tough patch... especially with all the software houses out of India doing it on the cheap...

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    So, when you say website design, you mean you're responsible for server and firewall configuration, perhaps even SSL certificates and cookies, as well as just designing the web pages and such? That's a lot to do... even though I could probably figure that out, I would really not want to be responsible for all of that on a high-traffic website. They're actually having a single individual set all of this up? That must be stressful.
    Well, I was only really thinking about the CODE issues and how data is passed around. The rest could be farmed out to a service provider. But it's one thing to bootstrap a site so that it works, versus making sure it works in a SAFE manner and under many different conditions (browsers, etc.) and does not bomb out.

    There is a big difference between a professional/commercial site versus someone's little podunk personal blogspot site. With the latter, all that matters is that your text appears on the page of most of the people who visit.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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