User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 15

  1. #1
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    927

    Default Lucid dreaming without control

    Sorry, that wiped out my entire post, I shall have to do it again now. :steam:

    Please stand by, it was a long post.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Take 2:

    There is nothing inherently difficult to understand about the concept of lucid dreaming: as stated in the introduction, lucid dreaming is simply dreaming while being aware you are dreaming. You can think of lucid dreaming as being conscious while dreaming. If, by chance, during a dream it suddenly dawns on you that you are dreaming, then you have experienced a lucid dream, regardless of whether you have been able to attain control of your dream. Lucid dreaming is usually induced by some sort of cue something that indicates to the person that what he or she is experiencing is a dream, and not reality. Cues, however, are not necessary for becoming lucid: sometimes people spontaneously become lucid without noticing anything strange or typical of dreams. Lucid dreaming is a very simple concept but for most it will take patience and determination to achieve.
    What is Lucid Dreaming?

    For the last few years, coinciding with my loss of faith, I have been experiencing lucid dreaming. I am aware whilst I am dreaming, that it is infact just a dream, yet I have not achieved any ability to control it, or to change the way the dream goes, I can't even wake up by choice.

    My dreams are awful, the more awful they are the more likely I will gain awareness that I am dreaming, I am unsure why that is, maybe some self protection mechanism.

    I wake crying, frightened, worried about portents and omens (that I shake off lol), they are an emotional rollercoaster of all the fears and worries of my day to day life that I supress daily, coming out in my sleep.

    Last nights lucid dream:

    I was waiting in a public place, my children had been with their father for the weekend and now was the inevitable hand over of the kids. I was afraid, but it was a public place, and that was all I could hold onto. I am not aware I a dreaming at this stage.

    I see him and the children making their way toward me, The two youngest ones burst ahead, running up to me and hugging me, happy to be back with me and excited. My eldest son holds back, he looks so much like his father, even his eyes have changed. There is a corruption of innocence, evil eyes stare out where my sons used too, his father stands next to him his eyes the same. I feel fear and trepadition at what I see, my son is gone, in his place is the son of his father. I am not aware I am dreaming at this stage.

    My heart sinks, and tears are welling up inside, my ex sees the weakness in me and crows in his glory, ranting about my evil ways, calling me a "kaffir" (the word for non muslim, only with a dirty undertone to it, more like "filthy non muslim" in translation). He rants about how his son, my son, has now rejected me for being a "kaffir" thanks to his fathers teachings.

    I feel anger, I scream out "Yes, I am a "kaffir" and that I would rather die than see my children become like him, that freedom is more important than anything Islam can offer, that I will give my kids pork and teach them free thinking, that I am NO muslim", I am shaking in my rage and righteous indignation. I am still not aware I am dreaming at this stage.

    The scene around us spins out of control, it's not safe anymore, there are no people, we are at the door of my house. He grabs my throat and starts to squeeze as I struggle, I enter the LUCID dream stage awareness now. I feel pain, and immense fear.

    My eldest son, no longer my son, is watching. There is no love or remorse in his eyes for what he sees his father doing. The metaphor of a "heart shattering" at this stage, aptly describes my emotional level. I am crying, tears run freely out of the corners of my eyes, both in the dream and on my pillow (I am aware of both). I look behind me from the corner of my eyes, perhaps hoping that my brother inside the house will come to my rescue, only he doesn't, he is watching too. He tells me "I have brought this upon myself by being a Kaffir". His eyes match my sons, and my ex husbands, evil.

    My two youngest are holding my legs, crying and confused, they are not corrupted but they are distressed. I am unable to struggle, his grip is too stong and I know I am about to die. I find myself too distraught to care, and I begin to fade out, I am aware I am dying in the dream, I am aware I am only dreaming, my mantra is "just make it through the dream, it is almost over, just get through this".

    The scene fades to black, my sobbing is coming through, I can hear it, and I wake up.

    The feelings with me today are a mixture, I am tormented by what may be ahead of me, I am sad because I feel on an intuitive level that the part about my son becoming corrupted is true, I feel it will happen, I see too many signs already.

    My issue is less with that, as it could just be a left over trace of fear from the dream, clouding whatever rationality I possess.

    My issue is being aware that I am dreaming, yet still needing to die to escape the dream.

    I have died by the hands of my ex often in my dreams, by him and the prophet mohammed, by friends and family. I die always, I do not wake up until I have suffered the death throes either, yet I am lucidly aware it is just a dream.

    I have been trying to gain control of my low level lucidity dreaming, with limited success.

    My question is has anything like this ever happened to you, and how did you gain control of it?

    Are these dreams prophetic, or just manifestations of my fears?
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  3. #3
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    InTP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp
    Socionics
    INTj Ni
    Posts
    2,652

    Default

    I can't remember if I've ever had a dream that lucid in my past, but I would offer an idea that maybe these dreams are both "prophetic" and manifestations of your fears. "Prophetic" in such that your fears tell you that your son will become corrupted like this, and the dream is a message informing you just how honestly serious this is to you.

    I guess if these dreams recur with your son exhibiting the same lack of care for you, it's probably a message to yourself that you need to step in and make something right.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    I can't remember if I've ever had a dream that lucid in my past, but I would offer an idea that maybe these dreams are both "prophetic" and manifestations of your fears. "Prophetic" in such that your fears tell you that your son will become corrupted like this, and the dream is a message informing you just how honestly serious this is to you.

    I guess if these dreams recur with your son exhibiting the same lack of care for you, it's probably a message to yourself that you need to step in and make something right.
    I don't feel in control of that part though, I can not control my sons emotions no matter how much I wish I could.

    I do the best I can as a mother in the real world, but the corrupting forces are now beyond my control and about to re-enter my life.

    I feel powerless to prevent that part becoming a reality.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  5. #5
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    InTP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp
    Socionics
    INTj Ni
    Posts
    2,652

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    I don't feel in control of that part though, I can not control my sons emotions no matter how much I wish I could.
    That would further drive home the 'severity' of the problem--the fact that not only is your son's emotions something you dreadfully fear, but that you have no control over them.

    While you feel powerless to help him from where his feelings are going, I'd think his experience with you may help ease him out of the stranglehold of Islam should it prove to be a source of pain for him too...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    That would further drive home the 'severity' of the problem--the fact that not only is your son's emotions something you dreadfully fear, but that you have no control over them.

    While you feel powerless to help him from where his feelings are going, I'd think his experience with you may help ease him out of the stranglehold of Islam should it prove to be a source of pain for him too...
    I am aware that it impossible to control somones emotions on any level, I think what I meant more is that emotions in others usually seem so erratic, like my ex, you never knew what was coming one day to the next, and things that seem like pure evil to me seem like good to him.

    I fear less that Islam will corrupt my son, more than I fear that my ex will corrupt him, not even corrupt him, but just bring out a side to my son that I know is there, that I have seen before.

    He and his father and very alike, and they have a connection that I can not match, my son tests as ETJ so far, his father I say ISTJ, so they have a connection, a similarity right?

    I am an INFP, how many ETJ sons can understand or connect with an INFP mother, weak and emotional, irrational at times. Unlike the father who although completely irrational himself when it comes to violence, and cruelty, somehow comes off better in my sons eyes.

    How can I compete? how can I help shape my son when there is no connection between how I see the world to how he sees the world? in terms his father can understand and shape.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    927

    Default

    I know where the dreams come from, and those fears are one thing, but how do I take control of the dreams?


    I need to die to wake up from these dreams, and the act of dying in my sleep is distressing and lingers, I don't want to keep dying in different ways, it's too upsetting.

    I need to gain control.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  8. #8
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Ok... let me see. I can lucid dream, I can trigger and guide dreams. There is a knack to it, linked (at least for me) to the knack of entering a meditative state.

    Learn how to embrace a lucid dream - by which I mean, learn to choose to enter it, because by choosing it you gain (or regain) an element of control.

    The first key is learning when your mind is receptive to a lucid dream - this is typically when you are near to entering a dreamlike state when still awake - you need that odd, unfocussed spiritual feeling, when tired, that you start to drift.

    The second key is learning to release your mind and embrace a meditative state. I, like many, often need a visual focus (which can actually be imagined and pictured, or physically viewed with the eyes). For me it will be something like the pattern on wallpaper, or the imagined image of the leaves on trees. By concentrating in an unfocussed loose way on the image, the visual parts of the brain seem to let go, to allow the dream state to take on the mind.

    Then, as the brain slips into sleep, allow the conscious to follow it down, gentle nudges and guidance, and keep aware that you are dreaming. With practice is becomes relatively easy - providing you dont try and force the state required when it is simply not available to your spiritual reserves.

    If you have had a nightmare, embrace it with a lucid, controlled, dream. That is what I do, once you can control, you can re-enter a troubled dream in an in-control relaxed frame of mind, and for me the key defence to fixing such an experience is to go back in and laugh. Just chuckle at the ridiculousness of what you are re-experiencing. This laugh is in the dream of course, but your conscious is sat at a higher level just gently guiding the experience, so one needs to spend time actually imagining you are laughing at the bad characters in the dream, and the nudge can fix the experience.

    It's a rather narcissistic experience, almost an art form, but if you can master it quite enlightening and empowering.

    Good luck, Sahara.

    -Geoff

  9. #9
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Ok... let me see. I can lucid dream, I can trigger and guide dreams. There is a knack to it, linked (at least for me) to the knack of entering a meditative state.

    Learn how to embrace a lucid dream - by which I mean, learn to choose to enter it, because by choosing it you gain (or regain) an element of control.

    The first key is learning when your mind is receptive to a lucid dream - this is typically when you are near to entering a dreamlike state when still awake - you need that odd, unfocussed spiritual feeling, when tired, that you start to drift.

    The second key is learning to release your mind and embrace a meditative state. I, like many, often need a visual focus (which can actually be imagined and pictured, or physically viewed with the eyes). For me it will be something like the pattern on wallpaper, or the imagined image of the leaves on trees. By concentrating in an unfocussed loose way on the image, the visual parts of the brain seem to let go, to allow the dream state to take on the mind.
    Then, as the brain slips into sleep, allow the conscious to follow it down, gentle nudges and guidance, and keep aware that you are dreaming. With practice is becomes relatively easy - providing you dont try and force the state required when it is simply not available to your spiritual reserves.

    If you have had a nightmare, embrace it with a lucid, controlled, dream. That is what I do, once you can control, you can re-enter a troubled dream in an in-control relaxed frame of mind, and for me the key defence to fixing such an experience is to go back in and laugh. Just chuckle at the ridiculousness of what you are re-experiencing. This laugh is in the dream of course, but your conscious is sat at a higher level just gently guiding the experience, so one needs to spend time actually imagining you are laughing at the bad characters in the dream, and the nudge can fix the experience.

    It's a rather narcissistic experience, almost an art form, but if you can master it quite enlightening and empowering.

    Good luck, Sahara.

    -Geoff
    I have never had even a minimal amount of success with meditating, I don't think my mind ever slows down enough to alow it to happen, and I have tried books and techniques suggested to me but nothing.

    Sleep doesn't just creep up slowly with me, the transition from awake to asleep is sudden, I simply crash wherever I lay.

    I will try again, but with a racing mind my fears will definately manifest themselves in my dream again.

    The only success I have had has been pushing all fears from my mind, supressing as much as possible, not letting my mind touch on the problems, so that my sleep is empty of dreams, or at least none that I am aware of.

    The last week or so though it has been slam straight into a lucid dream with no control and this is when my emotions play out, my fears of rejection, my pain, my terror at the path opening infront of me.

    I will try again though.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  10. #10
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    I have never had even a minimal amount of success with meditating, I don't think my mind ever slows down enough to alow it to happen, and I have tried books and techniques suggested to me but nothing.

    Sleep doesn't just creep up slowly with me, the transition from awake to asleep is sudden, I simply crash wherever I lay.

    I will try again, but with a racing mind my fears will definately manifest themselves in my dream again.

    The only success I have had has been pushing all fears from my mind, supressing as much as possible, not letting my mind touch on the problems, so that my sleep is empty of dreams, or at least none that I am aware of.

    The last week or so though it has been slam straight into a lucid dream with no control and this is when my emotions play out, my fears of rejection, my pain, my terror at the path opening infront of me.

    I will try again though.
    Sounds like your difficulty is in reaching any sort of receptive happy relaxed state of mind. Pushing all the bad thoughts away isn't going to help, it'll just repress them into your dreams and fears.

    So, first you will need to learn to relax. Practice thinking happy bunny thoughts. Just lying there, awake, and not stressing. Relax, relax, relax. Learn to picture a happy place. This is a great trick if you can learn it. A refuge, a place of total contentment and completion. Make it a visual image and learn to concentrate on it in your mind's eye. For me, it is a swimming pool on a tropical island, all deserted, but safe. Just me, in the warm sun, floating contentedly. Find one that works for you. Think of it. And again. And again. And again, until you relax. Don't push the bad thoughts away, just let them drift away as the happy bunny contented ones take over. Make it like a mantra, again, again again. Allow the "happy place" to take over until you float in a gentle sea of contentment. Try to slow your mind down - when it races, allow the consciousness above... aside..to just gently switch those centres of your mind off. So let the thoughts drift away in the sea of contentment.... so that if your mind won't stop racing, it slowly becomes like the volume and brightness turned down on the tv.. the pictures and words slowly submerge beneath the relaxed contentment and emptiness of your relaxed happy space. If it helps (doesn't for me, but can for others), learn to recite a few words of some phrase that will help "I am calm, I am relaxed."

    Spend a few evenings trying this for 10 minutes at a time - it isn't easy, but it is a useful first step towards meditation and controlled lucid dreaming. It helps the mind reach a receptive state. Until you can reach happy contented relaxation when awake, your dreams will just follow the late night stress and tension and repression. So your first exercise is this seemingly simple one - learn to relax and content in your own head.

    It is also helpful if you have to suffer some horrid pain if you have this happy place to keep your mind in refuge - I find it great for trips to the dentist

    No apologies for explaining this in fine detail - you seem to be having problems with the whole process and wanted to talk you through how to put it all together, at least in my own experience.

    -Geoff

Similar Threads

  1. I Can't Lucid Dream.
    By Cygnus in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2015, 04:14 AM
  2. Lucid Dream Journal
    By The Wailing Specter in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-13-2014, 10:51 PM
  3. Lucid dreaming
    By clueless in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 191
    Last Post: 01-22-2014, 05:34 AM
  4. Lucid dreams and type
    By Kurt.Is.God in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 03-26-2012, 06:12 AM
  5. Lucid Dreaming and Dream Control
    By JoSunshine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-11-2011, 09:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO