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  1. #191
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    But I've said at every turn that I understand where you are coming from. However, the opposite is equally as hurtful. Saying that isn't diminishing your issues.
    When people respond to my communication with "I know, but...", it feels dismissive and deflective. Almost as if you acknowledge, but you don't. So, in my eyes it does feel like I'm being diminished. Although I know in reality that this is not your goal, which is why I didn't say anything. It's just my own style of communication. And I suppose that some others, like Saslou, communicate the same way.

    I've had long talks with Amar about an ENFP friend of mine who will sometimes do weird things and when I confront her, she'll say "I'm sorry, but..." and go off into a long explanation which seems like she's not really sorry - merely trying to explain - even if she really is sorry. Whereas when I am faced with the same confrontation, I simply take ownership and just apologize and promise to be more aware. The reasons are not as important to me as the end result. This is just a tangent and not related to you at all, since you have nothing to be sorry about. I'm just illustrating the difference in communication styles.

  2. #192
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    But I want to reiterate that me and LA are NOT arguing. It's all love and cuddles in here.

  3. #193
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    When people respond to my communication with "I know, but...", it feels dismissive and deflective. Almost as if you acknowledge, but you don't. So, in my eyes it does feel like I'm being diminished. Although I know in reality that this is not your goal, which is why I didn't say anything. It's just my own style of communication. And I suppose that some others, like Saslou, communicate the same way.
    And this somehow makes me ponder again on the T vs F style. I felt a certain way and then I judged the atmosphere, tone and relation between us, and decided to dismiss what I thought could have been a slight and continued on - illustrating how T communication works by taking feelings into consideration but not reacting solely on them.

    Whereas Saslou felt something, and it appears that she reacted based on her feeling. (This, of course, is my assumption based on the end result - correct me if I'm wrong.)

    Cute.

  4. #194
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    When people respond to my communication with "I know, but...", it feels dismissive and deflective. Almost as if you acknowledge, but you don't. So, in my eyes it does feel like I'm being diminished. Although I know in reality that this is not your goal, which is why I didn't say anything. It's just my own style of communication. And I suppose that some others, like Saslou, communicate the same way.

    I've had long talks with Amar about an ENFP friend of mine who will sometimes do weird things and when I confront her, she'll say "I'm sorry, but..." and go off into a long explanation which seems like she's not really sorry - merely trying to explain - even if she really is sorry. Whereas when I am faced with the same confrontation, I simply take ownership and just apologize and promise to be more aware. The reasons are not as important to me as the end result. This is just a tangent and not related to you at all, since you have nothing to be sorry about. I'm just illustrating the difference in communication styles.

    LOL. I'll actually want you to tell me why you did something and if you just appologize I'm likely to ask what spurred the behavior in the first place, so I can better understand it.

    There's also a difference for me between things that annoy you and that are just me and I'm not willing to change about myself (much like you don't wanna be all cuddly and stuff). I'll be sorry that I annoyed you and will appologize for that. The explanation is to see if you still feel annoyed with that trait of me if you understand where it comes from as such. If so, I'll gladly curb that trait around you, or try to at least, especially if I see it's important to you, or I can see why it is such a bother to you. But I won't change it, coz often those are the traits that also come with great benefits.

    I'll also want to explain if I feel that although I can see why you're annoyed at me, I'm unable to accomodate you in that. And I'm very much hoping you'll see why (don't have the capacities, not the opportunity etc).

    If I feel genuinly sorry coz I slipped up, I'll explain why I slipped up, but acknowledge that it was wrong and it will not happen again.


    Either way though..yeah, I will explain
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  5. #195
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yes, that's how I see it, too.

    I know that people don't act like this where you come from, saslou, but all you need to know is that we do things a little differently around here. This kind of thing isn't considered dismissal.
    That is seriously fucking condescending. What the hell do you mean by that?
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  6. #196
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post

    Either way though..yeah, I will explain
    I don't mind explanations that much. I meant that if you keep doing it the context of the conversation. For instance, if you stole money from me:

    me: dude, I know you took my money
    you: sorry! I'm not a bad person, I was just hungry and needed to eat. I won't do it again.
    me: cool. I get that. Just, in the future, ask first because now I'm hungry and have no way to eat.
    you: Ok. I won't do it again. But you have to understand that I had not one penny to my name and I was starving.
    me: I get that. Let's figure out a way to make sure this doesn't happen again.
    you: Yeah, I just want to make it clear that I am not a bad person and I was starving and I lost my atm card and blah blah blah...
    me: I KNOW. You already said that!!!!! Are you really sorry or not? Because it seems like you keep trying to justify it.




    This is rather simplistic, but illustrates my point. Say it once and move on - that's my philosophy. Because otherwise, it appears to diminish or negate the actual apology.

  7. #197
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    For the record, the topic was originally about using the phrase "You are being emotional" as a personal insult or cheap tactic to score points in a debate. I do like the direction this thread has gone, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    If an F-dom and a T-dom are having arguments, I can see a T-dom deeply resenting an "emotional" accusation (accurate or no) from their counterpart and the argument rapidly devolving into defensiveness. Eek! Feelings are unhygienic and I must disinfect my psyche. Conversely, I don't see an F-dom even receiving that criticism flipped or reacting the same way to being accused of rationality --if anything, they're feeling the need to overcompensate and are eager to prove just how rational they can be because culturally it seems to be a more desired (superior?) state of being. But, why? I'd love some theory tossing
    As tension increases, Fs often start using and misusing T and Ts start using and misusing F. I've noticed the shadow peeking out with F and T doms, in particular. This plays out in a variety of ways:

    Constructive: The parties meet halfway. Emotions are acknowledged and respected by both parties, and the bridge is gapped with open and honest communication.

    Unhealthy: Ah, so many ways. It usually involves one or the other person misusing an area of weakness to try and hide the area of strength. The F becomes logic obsessive to hide how their emotions are clouding the situation, or the T suddenly becomes an expert in reading and understanding the complexities of how emotions affect judgment because impersonal logic is getting nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    When I was younger, I saw my cousin get shot by accident. My other cousin screamed and cried and broke down while I jumped to attempt cpr and call 911. My first reaction was to immediately fix the situation, but I was all a mess inside. I overlooked my feelings and just acted appropriately - and he survived. My other cousin, when retelling the story, always mentions how cold and calculating I was. wtf? Being cold is NOT a natural inclination. If I was cold, I would have stood there sipping my coffee.
    I'd guess that the cousin was embarrassed by his/her inaction. They couldn't ignore the fact that you were the hero, but that doesn't mean you couldn't be knocked down a peg so that the other didn't seem so weak in comparison. Your "flaw" was what made you the hero, while their "caring" prevented them from being one.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Instead of going back and forth about this, can you guys explain what the appropriate thing to do is? When someone is clearly overreacting or hyper-emotional, how do you bring them back down to earth without dismissing them?
    Just because I am aware of an emotion, such as anger or hurt, it does not mean that I have properly acknowledged it. For the emotion to be properly dealt with, I have to acknowledge it. Usually just listening can be a big step to that, as the other person will likely feel heard. However, this is going to be a bit of a detour from your desired objective.

  8. #198
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Whereas Saslou felt something, and it appears that she reacted based on her feeling. (This, of course, is my assumption based on the end result - correct me if I'm wrong.)

    Cute.
    I responded to LA due to an emotion but my actual text i perceived to be thinking.

    Now my comment to Athianwhatever, now that was pure feelings and you can clearly see it. I'm pissed.

    OK, i don't want to be dissected here. Enjoy yourselves people.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  9. #199
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Udog, occasionally, you're my hero
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #200
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Amar, occasionally, you are the wind beneath my wings.

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