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  1. #131
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    alright, sure. we'll go with that.
    I left you a message, but I'll say this here. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to bring up the point that as much as you feel this burden to be more receptive, feeling types feel the opposite burden. Their feelings are dismissed all the time. No one can have it all.

  2. #132
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I left you a message, but I'll say this here. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to bring up the point that as much as you feel this burden to be more receptive, feeling types feel the opposite burden. Their feelings are dismissed all the time. No one can have it all.
    I know. But I am talking about more than just our personal experiences and looking at society as a whole. Women are more accepted as feelers than as thinkers. The opposite for male feelers. It's just the way it is, I'm not making it up.

  3. #133
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I know. But I am talking about more than just our personal experiences and looking at society as a whole. Women are more accepted as feelers than as thinkers. The opposite for male feelers. It's just the way it is, I'm not making it up.
    I agree with this. But the scales are not inherently tipped in favor of feeling types in general. It depends on the situation. And your perspective.

  4. #134
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I agree with this. But the scales are not inherently tipped for feeling and thinking types in general. It depends on the situation.
    Ok fine. We'll go with that. Sheesh.

  5. #135
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Ok fine. We'll go with that. Sheesh.
    Am I tiring you? I'm just trying to bring a balanced perspective. "I balance [in discussion], therefore I am."

  6. #136
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post

    LA has a tendency to assume that a person's feelings influence their reasoning to the point of making it unreliable, while Jenocyde has a tendency to assume that a person's reasoning can be valid regardless of their present feelings.

    Hmm... I wonder if this is why Sensors tend to dislike it when we make and act on assumptions? Because often assumptions aren't applicable to a specific situation?
    1 - Never assume anything.
    2 - feelings = irrational thinking so thats why you must come away from the situation to able to better assess it. Then come back more level headed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Feeling types often feel the same pressure to be more like thinking types in order to be accepted. It depends on the situation.
    Excuse me. Even feelers can think darling.
    I would rather have a heated argument with a thinker than a feeler as both are capable of thinking and feeling. They just do things differently.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  7. #137
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Am I tiring you? I'm just trying to bring a balanced perspective. "I balance [in discussion], therefore I am."
    I'm a little tired, yes. It's like when I have to go back and explain that not all x's do y. Yes, I get it. Sometimes, it's different. Ok. Sometimes there are exceptions. It's not the same for everyone. I get it.

    But for the most part things are the way they are.

  8. #138
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    There are so many ways to look at this. I understand where your friend is coming from and I'm glad she understands you, too. But it seems that the scales are skewed towards feeling types learning to accept us, as if there should only be one way of thinking and that they happen to encompass it. I am not uncaring, I just care about different things. I think we all want people to behave as we would. In her case, she wanted people to sit next to her or call her. In my case, I would rather be left alone. I don't like burdening others. So I leave others alone when they are going through things. Then I get the bitchslap email later about how I am uncaring, when I really believed that I was showing the ultimate respect. (like you said, you assumed she needed time and you gave it to her).
    Yes! Exactly this! It's not like I forgot for a second what she was going through, but, my initial phone call with no follow-up from her, maybe erronously, made me assume that she might not need me to be an additional pest at her side, when she was sorting it all out. I was giving her respect, it was a conscious decision to 'leave her alone' until I saw her face-to-face to give genuine support, 3 weeks later.

    It's easy to pick up the phone and call, I could have, if I knew she needed that from me. I guess a bit of my frustration is in how she expected a certain action and got disappointed in me for not giving that to her, when, if she had let me known, it would have all been resolved. I can't mind-read.

    And, my final frustration is in this whole concept of social etiquette and niceties. Some distant friends of hers, came out of the woodwork to call, show up at the funeral, support her. And, she said, in times of sadness, you realize who your true friends are, because the rest may only be there for the good times. And, I felt like she was taking a personal hit against me. When I wanted to tell her, maybe those people know, are aware of traditional, social niceties and fullfilled those obligations. While I may fail (royally! ) in those ways, but, if I know you need something, come hell or high water, I'm there. AND THAT, beyond any social etiquette, is a guarantee!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I try not to let what I want get in the way of who the person is.
    It's a fine balance, as I think a person has a right to have certain expectations from those close to them, so, I do believe there should be times when you should feel okay asking for what you want, over, who the person is. The optimal would be, recognizing that you are getting what you want, just in a different package than you, yourself, would deliver, given who that person is.

    To Qre:us -- If you want, you can hang out with me and eventually I'll rub off on you.
    If I want, eh? Well, I might have to discuss it with the person that I am, to see if my want converges with my being. If yes, rub-a-dub-dub, like viruses in a tub!

  9. #139
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    2 - feelings = irrational thinking so thats why you must come away from the situation to able to better assess it. Then come back more level headed.
    I'll leave this one alone
    Excuse me. Even feelers can think darling.
    I didn't say otherwise. I'm stating the preferences as they are used in MBTI. I know those are misnomers. I would rather use "ethics" and "logic," but so the story goes.

    I would rather have a heated argument with a thinker than a feeler as both are capable of thinking and feeling.


    So why would it matter who you were having an argument with?

  10. #140
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm a little tired, yes. It's like when I have to go back and explain that not all x's do y. Yes, I get it. Sometimes, it's different. Ok. Sometimes there are exceptions. It's not the same for everyone. I get it.
    If you had said female thinkers, I wouldn't have said anything. Because I do agree with that. But not in general. Definitely not in general. If it wasn't me who said it, probably someone else would have.

    Now let's get back to the rubbing (*looks at Qre:us and hopes she's not jealous).

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