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  1. #111
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    We've deviated significantly, but basically:
    Oh, I see. It sounds like you agree with my conclusion (that it depends on the situation whether they interfere or not), but disagree with the way I construed your perspective to arrive at it.

    Well, maybe I unconsciously fudged it a little because I wanted to be able to cast you one side of the spectrum, and LA on the other in order to be able to present my own idea as a balance between extremes. My natural way of thinking is to get an idea of the actual situation, perceive two forces as opposing each other with an extreme interpretation of the situation, and then appear to select whatever is in the middle as the best balance. Mostly because it sets the situation up in such a way that my idea appears to make the most sense.

    Yeah, I perceive and respond to things in odd, sometimes unfair ways.

  2. #112
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    you know. Im taking this into left field, but seriously. I was reading in another thread about T's crying because their F friends think they're evil masterminds because they cannot cry at Bambi. It irritates me when people assume everything is about them.

    I don't judge people based on how often they cry or show emotion. What I DO do is judge how they support MY emotions. And I think anyone who assumes that someone who reveals things about themselves and continues to show them a path into themselves and thinks that they don't have to do the same thing in return to maintain that friendship is a total retard.

    If I'm friends with someone.. I don't want to keep it superficial and shallow for the rest of my life. I want to get to know them, care about them, and deepen the reasons why we're friends. When they don't want to do these things back because "Wahh.. I don't LIKE to show emotions to people!" I can't help but take that as "Well. I have emotions, but your efforts aren't enough to see them." In which case, I slam the door on them entirely, and then they wonder why I'm so "callous" or "cold" toward them.

    Ugh!! :steam:
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  3. #113
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    So it would be actually way more productive to just stop the conversation at that point?
    Yes, most times. Which is what I often try to do. But if someone is in an emotional state, they assume that I am shutting down or walking away from them, when really I just want to do what's best for everyone, myself included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, maybe I unconsciously fudged it a little because I wanted to be able to cast you one side of the spectrum, and LA on the other in order to be able to present my own idea as a balance between extremes.
    No worries at all. You can put me into whichever corner of the ring suits you, as long as I am now aware that this is how you gain perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    And I think anyone who assumes that someone who reveals things about themselves and continues to show them a path into themselves and thinks that they don't have to do the same thing in return to maintain that friendship is a total retard.

    If I'm friends with someone.. I don't want to keep it superficial and shallow for the rest of my life.
    I guess everyone just has different views on what constitutes depth and what is superficial.

  4. #114
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    So it would be actually way more productive to just stop the conversation at that point?
    Then we get griped at for "giving up" or "abandoning" the other person. You see, we're in quite the pickle at that point.

  5. #115
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's not so much a stigma as much as it is you're denying us a fundamental aspect of our personality. You're saying not only that you don't know us that well, but also that you're not willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. You're not willing to get to know us.
    I didn't get all of that from it. But people interpret things in different ways, and I respect that you feel think that way

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It seems as if this entire argument is based on assumptions.

    LA has a tendency to assume that a person's feelings influence their reasoning to the point of making it unreliable, while Jenocyde has a tendency to assume that a person's reasoning can be valid regardless of their present feelings.
    No. I did not say anything about reliability or influencing reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    No, that's not really what he was saying. He was talking about arguing with people who reject logic altogether in favor of how they're feeling--ignoring the facts willfully because they feel a certain way.
    I didn't get that from the statement "You're telling me about the facts, but you're missing the POINT!". He interpreted it that way though. On a related note, this could be why intuition can be used as a "thinking" fake-out

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Ne is very different from Ni. We look for implications, not "meaning".
    Definitions of implication on the Web:

    significance: a meaning that is not expressly stated but can be inferred

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Level headed means calm and sensible.
    Fair and balanced are used as synonyms for level-headed in any thesaurus. But I get what you're saying here. Ultimately, calm and sensible can be linked with fair and balanced.

    I still see no stigma in admitting you have emotions or in thinking like a man.
    Not admitting that you have emotions, but being emotional.

  6. #116
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I guess everyone just has different views on what constitutes depth and what is superficial.
    Of course everyone has different views. What's simple open conversation to me, is extremely private to someone else, and visa versa. But. If they want to be friends with *me* they'll eventually have to disclose things about themselves. I'll have to know that they get affected when something happens to me, because not caring (or not knowing that care exists.. which is the same thing in my book. not being able to read is just as bad as not having books imo. You need both to function.) is what strangers do to me, and what I do to them.

    I'm a giver, and I know I am. but, as my friend, they need to figure out that taking and taking from me will eventually leave me feeling empty about them. I don't think it's too much to ask to eventually allow me in, considering the extent that I go to for my friends.

    They can always reject my offers in, but this will land a friend in the "We talk occasionally and that's about it." category. Not a real friend at all. If they have no interest in being let into my life, why would I be their friend? and if they don't want me in their life, why be their friend? Either way, it doesn't make much sense. But I still hear it all the time like it's common sense.. "I don't like talking about this." .. To which I always reply "Then don't. But eventually that selfish attitude has to change."

    I don't like that people assume it's easy for me to talk about my emotions and feelings just because I have them either. People assume it comes naturally to me, and it doesn't. I just understand and grasp that my friendships require that to be maintained.
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  7. #117
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Then we get griped at for "giving up" or "abandoning" the other person. You see, we're in quite the pickle at that point.
    I'm just registering. Coz I have the same problem. The moment someone gets frustrated with me in a debate, be it about the topic, or worse, about the fact that they're stuck explaining things to me, I'm done. And I'd like to leave, as the discussion just reached a point where it's no longer useful nor pleaseant.Just didn't consider it polite to do so.

    I'm kinda wondering if when that frustration builds up and it's visible, a lighthearted joke to take a break might reset people's moods so you can continue afterwards...
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  8. #118
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Of course everyone has different views. What's simple open conversation to me, is extremely private to someone else, and visa versa. But. If they want to be friends with *me* they'll eventually have to disclose things about themselves.
    I know that you were speaking in relation to yourself. However, in general, I have friends like this who feel that we are not deep, close friends simply because I don't wish to talk about certain issues. If that's all they base my friendship on, then good riddance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'm kinda wondering if when that frustration builds up and it's visible, a lighthearted joke to take a break might reset people's moods so you can continue afterwards...
    It depends on if the joke is actually funny or a not-so-well-covered dig.

  9. #119
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    when people go into a tiff, i just look at them and raise my eyebrow
    then i take a seat and listen to them while asking questions.
    i'll be damned if i raise my voice or even tolerate such poppycock
    Yeah, I think I'm similar.

    But this doesn't work well, at all, when you're interacting with someone who is accustomed to more conflicting, angry, turbulent discussions, and almost requires that intense level of emoting in order to resolve things. Remaining calm under fire...can piss some people off.

    I know I came into this late and the thread has since morphed...but oh well, thought I'd comment on this piece. :-)
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  10. #120
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I know that you were speaking in relation to yourself. However, in general, I have friends like this who feel that we are not deep, close friends simply because I don't wish to talk about certain issues. If that's all they base my friendship on, then good riddance.
    I can only agree halfway on this. If that issue is part of what makes you who you are and affects the things you do in life.. then yes, as a close friend, I'd feel like I should be a part of that knowledge. How much that matters in the friendship I suppose is situationally based. There are things I dislike to speak about as well and would rather avoid.

    I'm just saying I'm so tired of people thinking that these sort of things are totally voluntary. They are not always at all, for either party. Just because I initiate something, doesn't mean I want to talk about it anymore than that person does necessarily.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

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