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  1. #91
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    What I hate is when ENTPs reveal their feelings and then, in self-protection, claim it was their thoughts they revealed.
    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    nice try.
    Hmmm...I'd have to agree with Wyst in that ENTPs betray their feelings at times but then try to say they were being completely coolheaded the whole time. I work with NTPs all day (doing research), and ENTPs especially, seem to get defensive/angered quickly. Just yesterday, I saw an INTP/ENTP mudslinging over who was saying what about the other. JMO, though. I'm sure most will disagree because being emotional is a stigma no NT wants attached to them. I personally see nothing wrong with it, it could be why ENTPs have a greater acceptance in the general population than do the other NTs, including ENTJs; their behavior reads as "human."

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Miscommunication. Saying it's just our feelings is saying that it's completely illogical. That's an insult.
    How? Please elaborate.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Of course not, but then being emotional doesn't mean having a meltdown or a tantrum, which I'm sure you're aware of, although other people seem to imply it does. It doesn't mean all thought is replaced with emotion. A person can feel and think at the same time, after all.
    QFT. You're a clever appled orange

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    In general, though, Im not fazed by someone getting emotional in an argument per se. But there are times when youre talking with someone and you get the sense that there might be baggage that theyre bringing to the table, and when that happens I dont think its fair to continue to drive a point.
    Same. It doesn't bother me when people are "getting emotional" in an argument. It often reveals their true feelings/thoughts/whatever you wish to call it, on the matter. However, there can be times someone appears to be level-headed yet it's clear they have a stake in the outcome of the discussion. That's when I want nothing more to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Emotional. Unfortunately it's a word that has been tainted with misplaced demonization. I don't see people running around saying "You're being logical" and it being accepted as biting criticism. They're both neutral statements that can be twisted into bitter accusations, but I only see it happening in one direction. My question is why?
    Because logic is hailed as greater than feeling; what separates us from the lower animals. And people use emotions and feelings interchangeably although they are not one and the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the equivalent pejorative view of "logical" comes out as some form of "You're telling me about the facts, but you're missing the POINT!" Which I usually interpret as "I don't care who's right, this is my opinion and I will be heard!"
    That seems to me like "you're being too 'sensing'."

  2. #92
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #93
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I am wondering how Fs will react if I say that the most stabile and harmonic relationship beetween two people is the one between two "robot" ?


    I am just asking.

  4. #94
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Hmmm...I'd have to agree with Wyst in that ENTPs betray their feelings at times but then try to say they were being completely coolheaded the whole time. I work with NTPs all day (doing research), and ENTPs especially, seem to get defensive/angered quickly. Just yesterday, I saw an INTP/ENTP mudslinging over who was saying what about the other. JMO, though. I'm sure most will disagree because being emotional is a stigma no NT wants attached to them. I personally see nothing wrong with it, it could be why ENTPs have a greater acceptance in the general population than do the other NTs, including ENTJ; their behavior reads as "human."
    I often get frustrated (emotion) at misunderstandings, but not at the actual argument. My friends will see my frustration and think that I am emotionally involved in the topic, but they don't realize it's because they keep cutting me off or whatever. So I can see how you would think that we get emotional. But I guess you are possibly misreading what the emotion is directed to and why it's there. So when someone else brings up that same topic later in a really tiptoe kind of way, they are doing it with the perception that this topic makes me uncomfortable. But what they don't get is that I was just mad that I let myself get into a stupid argument with an idiot. I really have no patience and can get frustrated quickly if someone doesn't grasp what I feel to be a simple concept. So when they say that I was being emotional about the subject, I honestly disagree with them which I guess to you looks like I am covering up emotions. The emotion is there, it's just not where or what you think it is.

    And I don't think there is a stigma of having emotions at all. And I recognize them when I have them. I just don't base my life around them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Same. It doesn't bother me when people are "getting emotional" in an argument. It often reveals their true feelings/thoughts/whatever you wish to call it, on the matter. However, there can be times someone appears to be level-headed yet it's clear they have a stake in the outcome of the discussion. That's when I want nothing more to do with it.
    Not letting your emotions get physically into the conversation does not mean that you don't have a stake in what's going on. You are looking for subtext and confirmations of how I feel instead of just trusting what I say. I can say something bothers me without having to cry. But because I don't cry, does that mean I'm not telling the truth? It worries me to discover that people think this way. This most likely means that I have been lied to consistently throughout my life because I tend to take what people I'm friends with tell me, rather than guess if their feelings are different from their words. I'm not a mind/emo/soul reader and I don't pretend to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Because logic is hailed as greater than feeling; what separates us from the lower animals. And people use emotions and feelings interchangeably although they are not one and the same.
    I think the "lower" animals have it right. They are just honest and don't hide anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    That seems to me like "you're being too 'sensing'."
    I don't understand that at all. Can you explain?

  5. #95
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I often get frustrated (emotion) at misunderstandings, but not at the actual argument. My friends will see my frustration and think that I am emotionally involved in the topic, but they don't realize it's because they keep cutting me off or whatever. So I can see how you would think that we get emotional. But I guess you are possibly misreading what the emotion is directed to and why it's there. So when someone else brings up that same topic later in a really tiptoe kind of way, they are doing it with the perception that this topic makes me uncomfortable. But what they don't get is that I was just mad that I let myself get into a stupid argument with an idiot. I really have no patience and can get frustrated quickly if someone doesn't grasp what I feel to be a simple concept. So when they say that I was being emotional about the subject, I disagree with them which I guess to you looks like I am covering up emotions. The emotion is there, just not where or what you think it is.
    I'm not claiming to know exactly what they are emotional about and what it is directed to, just that they are. Why try to deny it (not asking to you, but generally)? What they are specifically getting frustrated about in the discussion is not the issue here, it's that the person is frustrated and angry, yet claims they are being coolheaded.

    And I don't think there is a stigma of having emotions at all. And I recognize them when I have them. I just don't base my life around them.
    There is a stigma (whether you personally adhere to it or not), or else it couldn't be used as an insult.

    Not letting your emotions get physically into the conversation does not mean that you don't have a stake in what's going on.
    I know, that's what I said.
    You are looking for subtext and confirmations of how I feel instead of just trusting what I say. I can say something bothers me without having to cry. But because I don't cry, does that mean I'm not telling the truth?
    No. I'm not looking for subtext, this is all blatant.
    It worries me to discover that people think this way. This most likely means that I have been lied to consistently throughout my life because I tend to take what people I'm friends with tell me, rather than guess if their feelings are different from their words. I'm not a mind/emo/soul reader and I don't pretend to be.
    When someone says one thing, yet behaves in a way that contradicts this, which is a person to believe?

    I don't understand that at all. Can you explain?
    Sensing pays attention to what's literal and factual, intuition links these into a greater whole.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I actually think this thread is quite funny.

    When others are being too emotional or having a temper tantrum, i'll tell them they are behaving like a tw*t, laugh then walk away so to defuse the situation. Someone actually complimented me recently on my style and thought it was a good way of doing it.

    Me however, i know i do feelings first then logic. I don't need people to point out what i am doing, i am well aware Einstein. (would love to smash plates, but 1- I will have to clear up the mess and 2 - i'll be several plate short, lol). I just have to walk away form the situation, calm down and collect my thoughts then i'll go back in and light heartedly discuss the situation whilst throwing a few jokes in there. I don't take to much seriously.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  7. #97
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    How? Please elaborate.
    You're saying that you don't see the underlying logic in what we're saying in that statement, but on top of that, you're saying both that you don't think that there is any underlying logic, and implying that we didn't put any thought into the statement.

    As you can tell, that's a bit insulting.

  8. #98
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    ^Okay, I get that. It goes back to the stigma.

  9. #99
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    LA: I don't think we are understanding each other. The issue of what we are frustrated about does indeed make a difference, to me at least.

    The "I know, that's what I said" comment is confusing me. You said "However, there can be times someone appears to be level-headed yet it's clear they have a stake in the outcome of the discussion. That's when I want nothing more to do with it." And I said that they are not mutually exclusive. Being level headed does not mean that you don't have a clear stake in the conversation. I'm confused on what you are agreeing with.

    The insulting aspect of being called emotional when you are not has no bearing whatsoever on a perceived stigma. I would be just as insulted if I were called a man, when I am clearly not. But being a man is not a stigma.

    And sensing is not the only function that pays attention to facts. I analyze and state facts from my Ti perspective. To have them dismissed because they make sense is the flip side of being dismissed for expressing valid emotions.

  10. #100
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    ^Okay, I get that. It goes back to the stigma.
    It's not so much a stigma as much as it is you're denying us a fundamental aspect of our personality. You're saying not only that you don't know us that well, but also that you're not willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. You're not willing to get to know us.

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