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  1. #21
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    EXXJ

  2. #22
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    My ideal debate partner would be Data from STNG. The kinds of things that detract from communicating usually have to do with bringing in unspoken issues into the topic. This can be done through personalizing the information, becoming ego invested, or trying to prove something outside the context of the information being exchanged. My own weakness is in the area of personalizing something rather than ego investment. I do have a system for minimizing that in myself, but it's not a flawless system. My worst communication mishaps occur in the presence of extreme personalizing or ego investment from the other person. My worst skills are in relating to strong pride or anger because I sometimes can not read those behaviors. I just don't see them, and that causes really crazy problems. I'd like to think I can adapt to a wide range of communicating styles and for the most part can, but it is clear I have limits. I have been woefully unsuccessful in a few settings. I can usually clear it up if I listen carefully enough.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #23
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    ESFJ hands down...I just do not have the tools to reason with them when they have thier knickers in a knot. I move into damage control instead - although it only seems to be the unhealthly ones. No amount of reason from any person seems to budge them from thier course.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    EXXJ
    +1

  5. #25
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewitter27 View Post
    Everyone knows people who won't give in to you, no matter how much you try. You can be right, you can be wrong, but these people won't give in to you for some reason. You can batter these people for as long as you want, and they will not give in to what you throw at them.:steam:

    The question is, for all of you: Which type is the hardest for you to reason with, and why?

    I personally have little opinion, except for the unreasonable person being a J.

    Post, discuss, etc.
    So the definition of "reasonable" is someone who gives in to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gewitter27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    So the definition of "reasonable" is someone who gives in to you?
    No. Reasonable is that, when faced with overwhelming amounts of data, they see the correct way. Unreasonable is that, when faced with overwhelming amounts of data, they hang on to one little shred of something or other, and claiming one tiny shred to be larger than the huge, enormous horde of data beseiging their 'Castle'.
    I 96% N 93% T 75% P 63% 5w4 sp/sx/so ILI
    Ti>Ne>Te>Ni>Si>Fi>Se>Fe
    I'm interested in what you percieve me to be. Johari/Nohari

  7. #27
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewitter27 View Post
    No. Reasonable is that, when faced with overwhelming amounts of data, they see the correct way. Unreasonable is that, when faced with overwhelming amounts of data, they hang on to one little shred of something or other, and claiming one tiny shred to be larger than the huge, enormous horde of data beseiging their 'Castle'.
    Data are open to interpretation.

    Reasonableness requires that one put aside ideas of "correct" and incorrect, in the spirit of exploration, and mutual understanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #28
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    I dunno. Everyone at some level has the capacity to read their own personal biases into an argument. Unhealthy, neurotic people are the worst about this, since their personal biases are the strongest. To that end, I've had major problems with INTx and xxFJ's alike.

    But there's something to be said about being "too easy" to convince, too. Faulty reasoning, or sometimes even good reasoning, shouldn't sway a person over to another's side. This is how people get conned and manipulated. There's the phenomenon that something can seem logically sound but not "feel" right..


    Quote Originally Posted by Gewitter27 View Post
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    ...
    One of you is going to end up changing your answer to "INTP" by the end of this

  9. #29

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    Everybody is impossible to reason with. Even if you did seem to reason them into understanding, they're only buying time to get you out of their hair.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Stressed and panicked types are the hardest to reason with. Trying to reason with a person going through a panic attack.

    But say if you were in a debate and you had found logical fallacies etc, I'll go with TJ more than FP variance. Pride, shame etc gets in the way and being humble isn't enough to adopt the new improved reason because of rigid values. In that sense stubbornness and pride are in essence toughest to reason with and that could be any type.

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