User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 79

  1. #31
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Sure, I want to take that leap of faith, but I've gotten no reassurance that it's okay to do so, or that the whole world won't crumble and fall on top of my head if I do. If people consistently remind you to stay in the lines, and tell you that it's not okay to try and connect with people... I'm going to just forget all of that and try anyway? Fear... that's always been what's really driving me, hasn't it?
    Sounds like you are hanging with the wrong people and they just suck. More reason to venture out, imo...

    And you don't need reassurance from anyone. If you waited for everyone to approve or to coddle you, you will live a long and lonely life. No one ever approves of anything that I do - until I become successful at it, of course. Then everyone acts like they had a hand in it... Whatever, just do what you want to do and try to not rely on others to give you what you need or to make you feel good about yourself. Like the comedian Katt Williams said: how can I mess up your self esteem? it's called self-esteem - esteem of your motherf*king self!

  2. #32
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I can't tell if you're mocking my fate, or trying to give me advice.
    I don't agree with the 'fate' that you've ascribed to yourself, thus, I'm mocking your way-of-thinking.

    Sure, I want to take that leap of faith, but I've gotten no reassurance that it's okay to do so, or that the whole world won't crumble and fall on top of my head if I do. If people consistently remind you to stay in the lines, and tell you that it's not okay to try and connect with people... I'm going to just forget all of that and try anyway? Fear... that's always been what's really driving me, hasn't it?
    How is it rational to look for reassurance from an online forum about hypothetical situations? What is versus what could be. Again, don't expect the world to cater to you...it'll be a lonely wait. You're so invested in building all these fears around what could be that it hinders you from materializing what is.

    You know exactly what's stopping you, your fear...so, either you face it head on, or, avoid it, which really isn't possible because fear just manifests fear.

    I guess I've got to learn how to make myself act towards my wishes instead of away from my fears if I ever want to get anywhere, then.
    YES! I think we had a discussion earlier where I suggested that you might want to try doing exactly the opposite of what you're self is telling you....and see how it all works out in the end. That the only way to find reinforcement in life, is to place yourself in the situation (the stimulus) to allow for a chance for reinforcement. The only kick is, as with anything in life, it's a probabilities game...where the reinforcement could be + or -. Then it's a matter of how sick you are of trying the way you've always tried and not seeing results, thus, motivated to try the complete opposite.

    Edit: to add, it's up to you to interpret if what I say is advice or frivolous mocking.

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmy View Post
    Socializing is everywhere. But bars, parties, colleges, tourist attractions etc. are particularly easy places to initiate conversation because there's always something to say about the location or action going on.

    As an exercise, the next time you are in college, just turn towards the person next to you, look at his/her face and say: "I've never heard a professor talk this interesting/boring." Doesn't even matter if it is true. Once you've done this a couple of times the awkwardness of talking to people is greatly reduced. When you don't go to college, go to a bar sometime with some friends, and when you order a drink, say to the person next to you: "Wow, serving drinks in this place sure goes fast/slow". In my experience, unless that person has something incredibly important to do (read, hit on somebody), they will turn to you and give a nice reply.
    Hmm... well, now you've got me thinking about it again. Perhaps there are such places and ways of doing things, if you say they exist. Sounds like the start of a conversation can be rather simple, too.

    This is fearful thinking. Don't point out to me that I usually refute these arguments, but I know from personal experience that social skills CAN be taught. If you want advice from me, pm me as it is to elaborate and personal a story to post on open forums. I'm totally on jenocyde's side on this one.
    If you believe they can be taught, and it's not too late even for someone like me, I'll believe that... I've got to believe that.

  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Sounds like you are hanging with the wrong people and they just suck. More reason to venture out, imo...

    And you don't need reassurance from anyone. If you waited for everyone to approve or to coddle you, you will live a long and lonely life. No one ever approves of anything that I do - until I become successful at it, of course. Then everyone acts like they had a hand in it... Whatever, just do what you want to do and try to not rely on others to give you what you need or to make you feel good about yourself. Like the comedian Katt Williams said: how can I mess up your self esteem? it's called self-esteem - esteem of your motherf*king self!
    Well, the people I'm hanging around with... are my parents. They're pretty much the only people I've known well.

    Well, I guess I just want to know that I'm not considering something totally stupid considering my situation. Am I too stupid or incapable at this point to learn how to adapt to something completely different from what I'm used to? I have no idea. That seems to be what people want me to think, though. Is this for my benefit, or for theirs? Huh... I guess there's really only one way to find out, even if it seems stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I don't agree with the 'fate' that you've ascribed to yourself, thus, I'm mocking your way-of-thinking.
    Oh. Well, it does look kind of funny now that I see it.


    How is it rational to look for reassurance from an online forum about hypothetical situations? What is versus what could be. Again, don't expect the world to cater to you...it'll be a lonely wait. You're so invested in building all these fears around what could be that it hinders you from materializing what is.

    You know exactly what's stopping you, your fear...so, either you face it head on, or, avoid it, which really isn't possible because fear just manifests fear.
    I almost hate that it's so simple... because it means that any certainty people have is an illusion, and that your own perspective affects you more than anything else. That's something I've been hesitant to believe precisely because it seemed too obvious and easy to be true... but what if it is? I certainly don't want to overlook it if it is...


    YES! I think we had a discussion earlier where I suggested that you might want to try doing exactly the opposite of what you're self is telling you....and see how it all works out in the end. That the only way to find reinforcement in life, is to place yourself in the situation (the stimulus) to allow for a chance for reinforcement. The only kick is, as with anything in life, it's a probabilities game...where the reinforcement could be + or -. Then it's a matter of how sick are you trying the way you've always tried and not seeing results, thus, motivated to try the complete opposite.
    Yeah... it can be hard to stay motivated to try the complete opposite on a regular basis if you have an easily accessible choice in the matter. And the safest, most obvious path would give me a choice to revert to my old habits with ease... which is exactly the kind of choice I shouldn't be leaving open to myself if I really want to change.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I almost hate that it's so simple... because it means that any certainty people have is an illusion, and that your own perspective affects you more than anything else. That's something I've been hesitant to believe precisely because it seemed too obvious and easy to be true... but what if it is? I certainly don't want to overlook it if it is...
    I am of the mind-set that each moment is a fork in the road for a choice, and then it's up to the individual to choose the 'good' or the 'bad'....and the definition of 'good' and 'bad' will always lie within that individual. I like to evaluate 'good'/'bad' (action, inaction) in terms of long-term gains, a really quick contingency plan of cost/benefit that's maximized sustainability & efficiency and minimized undue effort & harm (to self and others). And, pick it. Sometimes I get it wrong, sometimes right. In the beginning, way more wrong than right...and as with anything, practice reaches me closer to that theoretical perfect.

    Don't allow complacency/comfort of the constricting known to limit those conscious choices in your life that allows you to explore the unknown. IMO, that's what life and living is all about.

    Yeah... it can be hard to stay motivated to try the complete opposite on a regular basis if you have an easily accessible choice in the matter. And the safest, most obvious path would give me a choice to revert to my old habits with ease... which is exactly the kind of choice I shouldn't be leaving open to myself if I really want to change.
    No one will be a greater motivator in your life than yourself.

  6. #36
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, the people I'm hanging around with... are my parents. They're pretty much the only people I've known well.

    Well, I guess I just want to know that I'm not considering something totally stupid considering my situation. Am I too stupid or incapable at this point to learn how to adapt to something completely different from what I'm used to? I have no idea. That seems to be what people want me to think, though. Is this for my benefit, or for theirs? Huh... I guess there's really only one way to find out, even if it seems stupid.
    Sweetie, you already know what you need to do. I don't mean to be disrespectful or cruel, but your parents will not live forever. What will you do if they pass tomorrow? Would you be too "stupid" or "incapable" to pay the bills and provide for yourself? You'd be surprised at how quickly you can adapt in times of duress. What would happen if they became incapacitated and you have to care for them? You have to prepare for life.

    I think you told me your age once, but I forgot. In any case, age is a big deal here in the States. After a certain point in your life, you just have to make your own way. I'm sure your parents have what they think is best for you in mind, but it doesn't always mean that it really is the best thing for you. Are your parents happy people? Do they enjoy their lives? Are they just afraid of letting go?? My mother - I took one look at her miserable life and vowed to always do the opposite of what she did because I want to be happy. After all these years, she finally confessed to me that she wishes that she had made similar choices to mine. Parents may always mean well, but they are not infallible - no one is.

    She never gave me much guidance, however the few things I always remember her saying ever since I was in elementary school:
    1) be independent - never rely on anyone for anything. you don't have to do everything, but you must know how to do everything because even people that mean well will let you down.
    2) make your own money, so no man can ever tell you what you are worth.
    3) and for the love of all things holy, don't listen to a word I say. I've made my own mistakes, now it's time for you to make yours. I gave you life so why would I prevent you from experiencing it?
    4) always continue to educate yourself. Knowledge is the one thing that no one can take away from you.


    [this last one doesn't really apply to your situation 5) I pray that one day you will have a daughter just like yourself, so you know what it feels like!!!!]

  7. #37
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So I suppose what I'm really asking is, do people ever go places to engage in non-goal oriented interaction, simply because they feel like interacting with or observing interactions with people? And, is this considered acceptable?
    Sure. I used to be very shy. I'm pretty sure I had social anxiety when I was younger. I have nothing of the sort now. I am very confident socially. All you need is a start and you will grow in confidence. For me, it was that I went traveling on my own. Since then I have moved to two different countries. I meet people very easily in all kinds of situations.

    From what I've read of what you wrote I can say it helps to remember that you aren't in an inferior position when you are interacting socially. I think INFJs can tend to psych ourselves out socially if they think that way because we see our flaws in such sharp relief and assume others will also. Remember that everyone has flaws and that makes for a certain equality. People aren't even often focused on those things.

    Also, it's ok to mess up socially! It will happen and most everyone does at some point. You'd be surprised that you are often the only one who cares past the event. The more experience you have, the less sensitive you will be to the fear of embarrassment.

    Some helpful tips for your situation: Go to crowded cafes. Take a book. Then you can observe until you are comfortable. Catch peoples' eyes. Smile. Don't freak out if you don't get the response you want. Don't obsess about any perceived or actual negative responses.

    There is also a great group for whenever you feel confident enough Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup.com I have been to a few meetups when I was new in town. I met some really nice people. The good thing is that everyone is in the same position - looking to make new friends and acquaintances. They have groups set up around all manner of hobbies so you can make it an activity meetup which is sometimes less pressured. I think the film meetups (where people get together to go to the cinema) are always low key and low pressure.

    I think it's great you posted this question. Sounds like you are really wanting more at this point, time to change it up.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So I suppose what I'm really asking is, do people ever go places to engage in non-goal oriented interaction, simply because they feel like interacting with or observing interactions with people? And, is this considered acceptable?
    Isn't that called hanging out at Starbucks, or Borders? Does nobody do this anymore?

  9. #39
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    Sure. I used to be very shy. I'm pretty sure I had social anxiety when I was younger. I have nothing of the sort now. I am very confident socially. All you need is a start and you will grow in confidence. For me, it was that I went traveling on my own. Since then I have moved to two different countries. I meet people very easily in all kinds of situations.

    From what I've read of what you wrote I can say it helps to remember that you aren't in an inferior position when you are interacting socially. I think INFJs can tend to psych ourselves out socially if they think that way because we see our flaws in such sharp relief and assume others will also. Remember that everyone has flaws and that makes for a certain equality. People aren't even often focused on those things.

    Also, it's ok to mess up socially! It will happen and most everyone does at some point. You'd be surprised that you are often the only one who cares past the event. The more experience you have, the less sensitive you will be to the fear of embarrassment.
    Yeah. I guess my biggest fear isn't really embarrassment, so much as that I'll hurt the other person by being oblivious or insensitive. My fear isn't even for my own feelings. When people hurt my feelings, I can easily just suck it up unless it was quite personal. But you're probably right... I remember in high school people were amazed at how strongly I was affected by even a slight admonition or realized shortcoming. I guess I just have to trust myself not to hurt them... and trust them not to be so easily hurt by my potential obliviousness due to inexperience.
    Some helpful tips for your situation: Go to crowded cafes. Take a book. Then you can observe until you are comfortable. Catch peoples' eyes. Smile. Don't freak out if you don't get the response you want. Don't obsess about any perceived or actual negative responses.
    That's... what I was thinking of! They still have those? If they do, I'm going to go look for one. It seems like a good place to start.
    There is also a great group for whenever you feel confident enough Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup.com I have been to a few meetups when I was new in town. I met some really nice people. The good thing is that everyone is in the same position - looking to make new friends and acquaintances. They have groups set up around all manner of hobbies so you can make it an activity meetup which is sometimes less pressured. I think the film meetups (where people get together to go to the cinema) are always low key and low pressure.

    I think it's great you posted this question. Sounds like you are really wanting more at this point, time to change it up.
    Yes. I think you have a good idea of what I'm trying to do here. Thanks, this is all making sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Isn't that called hanging out at Starbucks, or Borders? Does nobody do this anymore?
    What are Starbucks and Borders? I'm going to have to look these places up... thanks.

  10. #40
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Go to where the people are. Keep your head up and don't avoid eye contact. Some extrovert is likely to talk to you at some point . If it's a guy, so what. Give him your number. It doesn't always have to end up being romantic, and you may be exposed to circles of people he knows. This is a passive way to meet people...just throw yourself in their path. I'm super shy and know how hard it is to strike up conversations with random people.

    Start hanging out at the same place so you become a regular and people recognize you. You will probably talk to the other regulars at some point, and who knows, if they like you enough, they may invite you to do something as friends. You can keep a book with you, but look around every now and then so you don't give off a "I don't want to be bothered vibe". Smile at everyone!

    I'm at the same coffee shop a lot and I know people there and have made business connections, even if not personal ones. I used to go to concerts alone a lot too, and about half the time someone talked to me in line, or between bands. Yeah, it was usually guys, but interaction is interaction. You're looking to build up social skills, right?

    Look into volunteering at something, maybe a local theatre, whatever.
    You can even find groups online who meet up to discuss common interests or engage in activities. Nanowrimo has regular writing meetups, for example.

    Hope some of that helps!
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] How do you interact with the different stages of your life?
    By Pinker85 in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-01-2012, 10:16 AM
  2. INTx: How do you deal with a lot of negative emotion?
    By Ozzy26 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-18-2010, 09:08 AM
  3. [NF] Do NFs care about anything outside of ethics/emotions?
    By Kiddo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 12-05-2008, 10:55 PM
  4. [NT] Do NTs care about anything outside of logic?
    By Kiddo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 06-11-2008, 10:50 PM
  5. How do you cope with a change of plan?
    By Ezra in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-07-2008, 02:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO