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  1. #31
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    this is why i don't get feeling women. on one hand you want chivalry, but on the other you want equality. you can't have both.
    What on earth does chivalry or equality have to do with referring to women as sex objects?

    why is it only thinking women that understand this? i'm pretty sure that once people stop getting offended, we wouldn't have a problem with anyone being called anything, right?
    Erm, no. There's a difference between not being personally offended when some random idiot calls you a name and finding the practice offensive. You could call me a [insert random insult] to my face and Id either ignore you or verbally cut you down but my immediate dismissal of the person calling me anything insulting is separate from my finding the practice of referring to women as objects highly offensive.

  2. #32
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    this is why i don't get feeling women. on one hand you want chivalry, but on the other you want equality. you can't have both.
    It seems to me that calling a woman those things is devoid of equality AND chivalry. So you want to give them... neither? It encourages inequality by viewing women impersonally, and it's obviously rude.

    why is it only thinking women that understand this?
    If that's true... then it's because Thinkers tend to be as tasteless and insensitive as you are, apparently. But I think you're just making poor assumptions.
    i'm pretty sure that once people stop getting offended, we wouldn't have a problem with anyone being called anything, right?
    What? No, people use it so much because so many people don't take offense to it.

    You don't make any sense to me.

  3. #33
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    No, in this case it is ghetto speak, people imitating jamaicans because that's what they do down them sides, when infact they are young moroccan and white boys who have never been to jamaica.
    i'm willing to bet that those who don't have anything to do with jamaica (or any jamaican influence) don't use the word "ting".

    Who said you couldn't if it is merely said for the same reasons women tend to end up calling men assholes or jerks.

    Two girls hooking each other up with a new date would not say:

    "Hey hun, I'm hooking you up with this asshole tonight"

    "I'm looking forward to meeting that jerk"
    a guy wouldn't ever say, "man i'm looking forward to meeting that bitch" unless the guy is looking forward to a fight with another guy (the bitch in question) or some other equally climatic event.

    a guy wouldn't ever say, "i'm hooking you up with this bitch tonight", because if there was a bitch in question, the guy wouldn't hook up with her in the first place. the people that hook up are not the same people who call people bitches, if you get me. it's a difference in social layers.

    I'm talking specifically about the example I gave in the OP, two guys chatting on the phone about girls they have only just met and are about to double date with "yo B, got these two holes set up for us tonight"
    yeah well, it isn't a date then as much as it is a fuck fest. "holes" isn't a term used around girls you want to hang around, but around girls that do something for sexual arousal. this may then be referred directly to treating women as sex objects, but that is an entirely different discussion.

    Do you see the difference or are you saying you see it but think it's acceptable?
    i don't consider anything unacceptable per definition. i would hate to limit myself to being politically correct. it gets boring, especially when there is a buffet of free speech on the table.

    As a feeling woman I obviously don't get that, I don't get what being chivalrous has to do with calling women holes, or dirtz. Or how that relates to my need for equality. Or indeed how it relates to this thread.

    I'm not screaming out for equality in my OP, I'm talking about being disrespectful for no real reason.
    guys in the social layer you are describing describe everyone as objects. the terms "bitch", "asshole", "chimp", "chump", "fag" are all more or less referring to people in a playful banter. usually being called these things triggers a verbal fight that lets the insultee challenge the insulter by flinging a better retort back at them. i don't see a problem with it, but then again i don't get offended by it.

    by being called anything (woman or man) by any of these people, it's basically just playful banter towards you. they expect you to do better, that is how you gain their respect. if you want us to be politically correct and call you girls, women, ladies etc., then you lose the equality of being one of the "bitches", "assholes" or "fags" that everyone else is. and if you think yourself better than them by calling yourself a lady, how can you blame them for referring to you with derogatory comments?

    i honestly think that most of these people (especially with the feelers around in the environment) just do it because that's social convention in the layer, not because they have ill will towards women. but then again what do i know, i'm just a silly faggot.
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  4. #34
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    I find that offensive, not to me personally, but because an entire group of people is being labelled offensively. It's the root of the words and the idea behind them, even if people have seesed to become offended.
    There are levels that LL mentioned, and the actual intent so that it becomes less offensive.. The teen boys attempting to look tough and use strong words usually crack me up.
    Ah well, I'm known to use rather crude language of some people also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Erm, no. There's a difference between not being personally offended when some random idiot calls you a name and finding the practice offensive. You could call me a [insert random insult] to my face and Id either ignore you or verbally cut you down but my immediate dismissal of the person calling me anything insulting is separate from my finding the practice of referring to women as objects highly offensive.
    +1

  5. #35
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sade View Post
    I find that offensive, not to me personally, but because an entire group of people is being labelled offensively. It's the root of the words and the idea behind them, even if people have seesed to become offended.
    There are levels that LL mentioned, and the actual intent so that it becomes less offensive.. The teen boys attempting to look tough and use strong words usually crack me up.
    Ah well, I'm known to use rather crude language of some people also.
    wait... isn't this post presenting a double standard? on one hand you dismiss the practice as playful banter, but on the other you find it offensive?
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  6. #36
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    iif you want us to be politically correct and call you girls, women, ladies etc., then you lose the equality of being one of the "bitches", "assholes" or "fags" that everyone else is. and if you think yourself better than them by calling yourself a lady, how can you blame them for referring to you with derogatory comments?
    I am amazed you think equality means reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    wait... isn't this post presenting a double standard? on one hand you dismiss the practice as playful banter, but on the other you find it offensive?
    It is indeed, I was planning of writing about that but erased it. I just have a really hard time taking those teen boys seriously, but that is merely a quirk of mine which doesn't relate to the actual use of those offensive words, but that I find the whole attitude pathetic or amusing.. I actually have a hard time taking all impersonal insults seriously, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize that they are ugly and I dislike what they imply, or that they shouldn't be used (for reasons that I stated before) and refrain from using them. And I sometimes scold people, because some actually do get insulted by being referred to as a bitch. I hate seeing people's emotions get hurt.
    Besides that, your point was..?

  8. #38
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    i honestly think that most of these people (especially with the feelers around in the environment) just do it because that's social convention in the layer, not because they have ill will towards women. but then again what do i know, i'm just a silly faggot.
    Perhaps because you don't have English as your first language you are not getting the distinction. We're not talking about referring to people as assholes and bitches, commonly and equally - jokingly. We're talking about women being referred to as holes and hos, specifically. The context: your father wants you to ask your mother a question, so he says to you "ask that vagina when she'll be ready". As if she is not the sum of all her parts. As if one part of her can (and should) be used, abused and tossed aside like trash.

    If you don't like me and you call me a bitch, I can deal with that because it's personal between us. But I have a real problem with someone who doesn't even view me as a human being before I even open my mouth. (although I have been accused of being less than human once I start to speak. oh well...)

  9. #39
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    Ahaha no I don't think me or my friends do this on a regular basis, only in rare cases as joke, or in particular situations (like, girls acting particularly sluttish at a disco)
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  10. #40
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Huh, I have a few thoughts on this. I'll try to be succinct but probably won't succeed.

    1. Re: the specific event discussed in the OP. We're talking about teenaged boys here, yeah? The armchair psychologist in me says this is somewhat typical (that's not excusing it) - teenaged boys in general can find girls/women intimidating, impossible, inaccessible. I would be more surprised to hear a teenaged boy who was getting laid regularly using these terms, than I would your typical teenaged boy, who isn't getting laid, but who reallyreally wants to be, and is harbouring some immature resentment.

    2. I have no desire to police language, but would I find this kind of talk appealing? No, not at all. It's just bad manners, in my book.

    3. Another issue here is...if these boys are getting some, who are they getting it from? What girls are sleeping with these boys who talk about them in this way? I might tackle this from another perspective - raise girls to respect themselves, raise them to expect a certain level of respect and behaviour from boys and raise them to shut them down completely if they don't get it. (incidentally this goes for boys as well but I would emphasize it with female children simply because of unalterable sexual dynamics)

    4. Peguy, I don't in any way believe you're a misogynist but this:
    If it's just us guys, yes. If there's women around, then either in sarcasm or if they truely deserve it.
    was pretty jarring coming from you.

    EDIT:

    i'm willing to bet that those who don't have anything to do with jamaica (or any jamaican influence) don't use the word "ting".
    Sentura, I assure you, England is not short of white/non-Jamaican boys who have never been to Jamaica, couldn't find it on a map, possibly don't even know it exists and yet speak as if they're fresh off the boat. Berberella is right.
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