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  1. #91
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I don't know anyone who uses words like these to refer to women. No one. And I've lived in NYC and California, now Seattle...
    That's because only Muslims say this kind of thing, didn't you know?

    But seriously, I've heard some of my younger brother's friends say this kind of thing. Usually they don't know I'm in the next room or something--I don't think they'd knowingly say it in front of me.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #92
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    barely in the 'low' class of society.

    It's the way things are.

    Well what can I say, the low class of society is exactly where I am from, and not somewhere I see myself getting out of in a hurry.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

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  3. #93
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Yes, I am aware of all you wrote, but this has nothing to do with misogynistic men all over the globe, as a whole.
    Yes, I am certainly not saying that this happens only amongst muslim guys, I did state that there are some white boys and black guys in the group with the same attitude towards women.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  4. #94
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Prime View Post
    Well, Victor, you are completely wrong. I've read a lot about Islam and the mideast since 9/11. Islam is just a tool they misuse to oppress women. There is no hatred embedded in the religion against women. It's the people who are muslim that act like idiots. Add to that misplaced sense of honour and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Clearly Islam is not for everyone: It requires sense and maturity. It's like anything else. You can use it. You can abuse it. Guns for example: they don't kill people. People kill people.

    This isn't even the thread for it, but you are wrong. There is untold hatred embedded within the religion against women. You say you read alot, exactly what is it you are reading? because from where I am sitting there is plenty of women hate in the texts and the religion.

    I get that it's nice to blame it on the culture, but that is closing the eyes to the fact that most of the times, Islam is the culture.

    If you honestly believe (any of you who believe this crap) that you are able to make a good case to prove your point, then feel free to pop over to my forum full of ex muslims who will be happy to debate this thoroughly with any of you.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  5. #95
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    This isn't even the thread for it, but you are wrong. There is untold hatred embedded within the religion against women. You say you read alot, exactly what is it you are reading? because from where I am sitting there is plenty of women hate in the texts and the religion.
    how about if you claim something, you post your source as well? i'm sure there's an online qu'ran you can quote somewhere.

    I get that it's nice to blame it on the culture, but that is closing the eyes to the fact that most of the times, Islam is the culture.
    i just don't see how this can NOT be the culture. it's a meme or trend or whatever. those people that say it most likely don't have a problem with women at all. whether it passes over time, i draw the line at calling people misogynistic just because they use any of those words for women. surely those kids using those words still have to grow up and eventually get married... right? (this is NOT about muslims, but about general western culture).
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
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  6. #96
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    how about if you claim something, you post your source as well? i'm sure there's an online qu'ran you can quote somewhere.
    You honestly want me to start posting sources and turn this into a religious thread?

    And if you honestly want to talk about islam, you can't just say "post from the quran" you have to accept that there are 6 hadith collections that go along with it and are in use as regular aids and guides to living by muslims.

    Muslim
    Book 008, Number 3361:
    Ibn" Abbas (Allah be pleased with thern) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: If anyone amongst you intends to go to his wife he should say: In the name of Allah,0 Allah protect us against Satan and keep away the Satan from the one that you have bestowed upon us, and if He has ordained a male child for them, Satan will never be able to do any harm to him.

    Abu Dawood
    Book 12, Number 2229:
    Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

    Al-Qasim said: Aisha intended to set free two slaves of her who were spouses. She, therefore, asked the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) about this matter. He commanded to begin with the man before the woman. The narrator Nasr said: AbuAli al-Hanafi reported it to me on the authority of Ubaydullah.


    Abu Dawood
    Book 29, Number 3911:
    Narrated Sa'd ibn Malik:

    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no hamah, no infection and no evil omen; if there is in anything an evil omen, it is a house, a horse, and a woman.

    Sahih Bukhari
    Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."


    Not to mention that the quran allows a man to beat his wife, to confine his women in a room (until death takes them or they repent).

    But god forbid I should take that as hatred towards women lol.

    There are many many more textual proofs, and whats worse is you can't merely dismiss them as archaic texts that aren't followed anymore. I have been on the recieving end of far too many of these hadiths and verses to pretend it's ancient and outdated no matter what a few modernised muslims are saying.

    Sure, islam is different per sect that you follow, some being softer some being harsher, but the majority of it is the same. The majority of it relegates women to pieces of chattel with no intelligence of their own, hence the need for 2 women as a witness, because the first woman might stupidly forget and need the second woman to remind her.

    I have no intention of turning this forum into a place where I can debate the finer points of islam, that's why I run the council of ex muslims forum. This forum here is seperate from that, it's my outlet away from there. If you want to debate this further, take the plunge and go over there, it should be in your blood.


    i just don't see how this can NOT be the culture. it's a meme or trend or whatever. those people that say it most likely don't have a problem with women at all. whether it passes over time, i draw the line at calling people misogynistic just because they use any of those words for women. surely those kids using those words still have to grow up and eventually get married... right? (this is NOT about muslims, but about general western culture).
    Sure, maybe some of them do, but honestly quite a few of them do have retarded views on women, some of them actually do believe that women are stupid, because their religion tells them they are, because in their own households they are held above the females and they can do no wrong in comparison.

    They walk around their own houses in charge of the females, they transfer this attitude into their out of the house lives. They especially see nothing but contempt for non muslim girls, especially white non muslim girls who are truely just there to screw until these guys go back home and get fresh virginal wives.

    You can guess away at what a bunch of guys that you don;t even know truely think about women, or you can allow for the fact that I do indeed know these boys personally, know their families, and know what I am saying is right.........for now, after all there is always the hope that they will break out of the casing that their minds are enclosed with.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  7. #97
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    In my religion, this shit doesn't matter. Deal with it by dismissing it, forgive, move on. Maybe dismiss the people who offend you.

  8. #98
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Sure, maybe some of them do, but honestly quite a few of them do have retarded views on women, some of them actually do believe that women are stupid, because their religion tells them they are, because in their own households they are held above the females and they can do no wrong in comparison.

    They walk around their own houses in charge of the females, they transfer this attitude into their out of the house lives. They especially see nothing but contempt for non muslim girls, especially white non muslim girls who are truely just there to screw until these guys go back home and get fresh virginal wives.

    You can guess away at what a bunch of guys that you don;t even know truely think about women, or you can allow for the fact that I do indeed know these boys personally, know their families, and know what I am saying is right.........for now, after all there is always the hope that they will break out of the casing that their minds are enclosed with.
    first of all, I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT MUSLIMS IN THAT LAST PARAGRAPH. how hard can that be to understand? christ, i even wrote it down.

    secondly, i'm willing to bet that there have been worse times for women in the past. conditions are improving over time, and i'm sure that within 50 years or so, misogyny in the sense of inequality will be gone from society.

    you assume that because of their language, they have a hatred towards women. i say it's in the culture (especially considering all the popularity of gangsta rap with their bitch this ho that lyrics), and because our western culture has little in the ways of role models for kids/teenagers.

    you want to label half the populace as misogynist because of what language they use, what clothes they wear and what music they listen to, fine, be my guest. i then just reserve the right to call you an idiot at any time for that same reason.

    EDIT:

    no i don't want to turn this into a religious thread, i just want you to learn to backup your claims.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
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  9. #99
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    first of all, I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT MUSLIMS IN THAT LAST PARAGRAPH. how hard can that be to understand? christ, i even wrote it down.
    Wow, your use of caps locks has really helped prove your unbelievebaly retarded point. Way to do bro.

    secondly, i'm willing to bet that there have been worse times for women in the past. conditions are improving over time, and i'm sure that within 50 years or so, misogyny in the sense of inequality will be gone from society.

    you assume that because of their language, they have a hatred towards women. i say it's in the culture (especially considering all the popularity of gangsta rap with their bitch this ho that lyrics), and because our western culture has little in the ways of role models for kids/teenagers.

    you want to label half the populace as misogynist because of what language they use, what clothes they wear and what music they listen to, fine, be my guest. i then just reserve the right to call you an idiot at any time for that same reason.
    So I labelled half the populace as misogynist? sounds to me like you also have reading comprehension issues, how is my tiny circle of lower class hoodlums with an attitude problem anywhere near half of the populace?

    If you intend to call me an idiot for something I haven't even done, then I reserve the god damn right to call you a whole lot more. :rolleyes2:


    EDIT:

    no i don't want to turn this into a religious thread, i just want you to learn to backup your claims.
    Something I already knew to do had I felt it was necessary. But good on you for the wasted lesson.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  10. #100
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Wow, your use of caps locks has really helped prove your unbelievebaly retarded point. Way to do bro.
    i see you've given up on arguments and just gone over to insults. i shouldn't have expected more i guess.

    So I labelled half the populace as misogynist? sounds to me like you also have reading comprehension issues, how is my tiny circle of lower class hoodlums with an attitude problem anywhere near half of the populace?

    If you intend to call me an idiot for something I haven't even done, then I reserve the god damn right to call you a whole lot more. :rolleyes2:
    if that isn't what you claim, then what is your claim?

    you know damn well that your tiny circle of hoodlums isn't the only tiny circle in the entire country, or hell, in the entire continent. even over here in europe, we have the same people. you label those as well. it's a generalization, possibly one of the worst i've ever heard.


    Something I already knew to do had I felt it was necessary. But good on you for the wasted lesson.
    well sorry that you didn't "feel" it necessary. next time i'm writing a thesis or something similar i'll just start claiming wildly about and just say, "i didn't feel like backing those claims up".
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
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