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  1. #11
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I love it, Syn!!!

    How about 'please' and 'thank you'?
    Here goes:

    "Please" and "thank you" are token rituals of respect. In their widespread adoption, we can identify the superficiality in human interaction that is now the norm within society. The use of such tokens as shorthand ways to demonstrate respect and gratitude ease one too quickly away from the feeling of sincere respect and appreciation. The feeling is felt, the words are expressed and applied before the feeling can make an impact. By relying too heavily on this shorthand, we render these feelings, which are useful in strengthening social bonds, superficial.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #12
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    wearing formal clothes for (job) interviews?
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  3. #13
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    wearing formal clothes for (job) interviews?
    Here goes:

    The practice of wearing formal attire to job interviews is neither good nor bad. But, it is pointless, which is worse than bad.

    The wearing of formal clothes is useless and pointless. It demonstrates nothing other than the candidate's ability to look good, which, unless the job requires it, provides no value. Secondly, it robs the interviewee of the opportunity to see what the candidate CHOOSES to wear to an interview, what they might naturally wear, which provides valuable context on the thinking process and attitude of the candidate.

    To a degree, you can judge a book by its cover. But, if we encourage formality, which is defined as an adherence to social conventions, we miss out on the ability to make such judgments as are possible when candidates feel allowed to be themselves, ie. informal.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #14
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    interesting... although technically all of these points are just used to demonstrate how superficial society is.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  5. #15
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Necromancing this thread. I want to argue with someone or about something. Please help.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #16
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    going to school/taking the traditional schooling path (this excludes homeschooling, dropping out, not attending college...etc) as a means to have a career. Or why a career at all?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    going to school/taking the traditional schooling path (this excludes homeschooling, dropping out, not attending college...etc) as a means to have a career. Or why a career at all?
    I'm assuming you are citing going to university as the convention.

    Here goes:

    The path to success seems pretty clear from what everyone tells you. Go to school, then embark on a corporate career, progress up the ladder, then retire. The problem is, since a large number of people go this route, how can it be assumed to be a wise path? Isn't success, by definition, doing better than your peers? Clearly, something else is at work.

    In The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley, Stanley interviews over 1000 multimillionaires to learn what common traits exist among them. One thing that was very common among the millionaires that he interviewed is that a large percentage of them were either high-school drop outs, high school graduates, or for those in the corporate world, college graduates. And many of them were dyslexics, who were at a significant disadvantage in the educational setting. Advanced degrees were rare and even professions that required advanced education such as medicine and law comprised only a small percentage of individuals in the group he interviewed. And, they tended to be on the low end in terms of net worth.

    Clearly, achieving multimillionaire status is unusual. And yet, in this rarefied group, a large percentage lacked the conventional standard of education deemed "necessary" for success. What does that tell us? It tells us that education likely contributes little to actual success. It's more likely that some other factor or group of factors is responsible for unusual success. Factors such as work ethic, networking, business savvy, frugality, etc. are likely to contribute more to success than education and yet where do you learn how to work hard or to network or to be frugal? There is no school in the world for that.

    It is likely that education is irrelevant to whether you will or will not achieve success.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #18

  9. #19
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    You devil.

    Here goes (quickly):

    It is unreasonable to expect women to vary their wardrobe. In fact, it is unreasonable to expect anything of women or to make any claim on the external characteristics of any person, especially on the basis of their gender. We simply do not have the right to dictate terms or expectations where they may interfere with the right of a person to live as they will in their own sphere of action. While cultural norms of dress may operate in practice along easily defined lines, it is irresponsible to consciously promote such norms as if they were not entirely capricious and arbitrary and remnants of patriarchy.

    Further, as with the wearing of high heels, creating and promoting notions of women as sexual objects or as baubles to be gawked at dehumanizes and depersonalizes human interactions and renders them superficial.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #20
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    The thing about all the things that are being argued against here, is that they aren't actually rules. They're just traditions. I think it's a mistake to assume that you actually have to do any of these things, because technically speaking you could choose not to do any of them. People would find it unusual, but most would tolerate it, and some would be impressed. The only thing ultimately stopping you from violating these conventions is yourself and your fear of losing face.

    The irony is that in order to criticize a convention, you have to give it legitimacy and acknowledge it as valid first. If you're afraid to break any of these conventions you're opposed to, you should really be asking yourself why. If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize it's because you ARE one of the people you hate. One of the people who has accepted the convention out of fear, in spite of their better judgment and personal feelings on the matter. And why do you not grant that the people around you you're criticizing might simply be doing likewise? I've met countless people who criticize these things and complain about how these things don't suit them, and very, very few who are actually willing to defy them. Conventions survive, not because people approve of them, but because they assume everyone else expects it of them and feel a lot of pressure to adhere to it as a result, perpetuating the cycle. It's all about mutual fear of how our individual differences/preferences will be received by others, if not on some level shame regarding those differences.

    At the end of the day, you do far more damage to a convention by actively refusing to go along with it and setting an example for others, than you do by standing back and criticizing it. I mean, when you criticize it, what are you asking for? You're asking for "people" to stop expecting something of you.

    The first error is in assuming that everyone who follows the convention actually expects something of you, rather than simply being afraid of censure themselves, or just happen to like the convention without thinking of how it affects you in making their choices. The second is in assuming that all social expectations carry enough weight to effectively be a law or rule, when, ironically, many people who think of themselves as conformists may well be oblivious to the expectation and habitually break it. For instance, when confronted (about many of the issues here, which is actually rare), they might gloss over that aspect of themselves and paint a picture of how "normal" they are in other regards, writing off their nonconformist trait much as many would a mole or scar.

    In reality, it's the people who criticize social norms who are the most aware of traditional expectations and what is considered normal, because they've internalized it the most. They've defined their identity in opposition to it. Of course, this is not an original thing in our country.

    Tell me if you can guess what social norm I'm criticizing. It's one of the oldest social norms in America. And one we're still following to this day, on this message board.

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