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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    And this had what to do with the discussion?
    Theres some women outside my window talking to my SIL and complaining that they government doesn't give them enough money. And everyday, these women will wear a new sexy dress, these aunties are not poor they are beautifully dressed.

  2. #82
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    If Sona doesn't like the wallpaper that's his problem. My larger question was when does someone else's house become your business? When does the "obvious" occur? There are always signs leading up to the extremes, they just don't happen all of a sudden.

    ETA: Sona throws out some good nuggets for discussion if only people could stop getting so wrapped up in the superficials.
    Personally, I don't think it's ever "my business," but I would step in only when harm is being done. I would be mortified and angry if someone decided to that if they didn't say anything about my sinkful of dirty dishes that I'd let it get to the point of child neglect. But if I had a friend whose living environment deteriorated to the point of dishes staying out on the table for days, fruit rotting on the counter and attracting insects, or things of that nature, I'd wonder if that friend were depressed or overwhelmed. I would probably offer to help out with cleaning, or watch the children once a week, or something like that. And I'd be talking to my friend to see how they were coping and if they needed some help beyond what I could offer with cleaning/childcare/conversation.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #83
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    It is interesting that Ivy described taking personal responsibility and not necessarily involving others, while PM seems more concerned about the duties/reactions of the society as a functioning unit and how society knows when to involve itself.

    Both are good approaches, it's just interesting how type results in different priorities.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #84
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It is interesting that Ivy described taking personal responsibility and not necessarily involving others, while PM seems more concerned about the duties/reactions of the society as a functioning unit and how society knows when to involve itself.

    Both are good approaches, it's just interesting how type results in different priorities.
    I read PM's question and comments as an endorsement of taking personal responsibility so that "society" doesn't have to get involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    The way people are talking it seems to become an issue only when child protective services are called in or the building is condemned. In my mind this situation can be avoided in some circumstances if people had only been "nosy and meddlesome." The building didn't suddenly become uninhabitable and the children didn't suddenly become neglected.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I read PM's question and comments as an endorsement of taking personal responsibility so that "society" doesn't have to get involved.
    Hmm... so is that what you meant, PM? Or did you automatically see individuals as an extension of society taking action?

    (I am just curious, trying to track the thinking.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #86
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hmm... so is that what you meant, PM? Or did you automatically see individuals as an extension of society taking action?

    (I am just curious, trying to track the thinking.)
    If that's the case, what's the difference between what she said and what I said?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #87
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If that's the case, what's the difference between what she said and what I said?
    Perhaps this is a nuance, but:

    - You are making a distinction between the individual and society. So an individual can take action, while "society" is an outside force that might have to get involved if individuals fail.

    - I was asking if PM did not draw such a distinction -- that the actions of individuals are actually categorized as "actions of society" since individuals are all really just a part of the larger society as a whole.

    It is the sort of thing I was wondering about in terms of ExFx vs IxFx thinking. One case obviously does not mean anything, but I wanted to see if there was some fundamental different in thinking even on this level. Is the assumption that society exists and individuals act as part of it, or that individuals exist and can act independently of [outside] society?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #88
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be argumentative, but your original distinction was that I spoke of taking the personal approach and "not necessarily involving others," which is the same thing I think PM meant when she said that if people would be nosy and meddlesome, maybe CPS and building code whatever people (I don't know what the people who condemn buildings are called) would not have to get involved.

    I see your larger point, though, that there is a difference between the EF and the IF approach to things, and I agree that there sometimes is one. I'm not sure this is an example of it, though.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I see your larger point, though, that there is a difference between the EF and the IF approach to things, and I agree that there sometimes is one. I'm not sure this is an example of it, though.
    Okay. I must have not read her first comment as carefully as I should have and my mind went elsewhere. Point conceded (in terms of maybe this is a bad example).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #90
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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