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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I feel that way too sometimes, but the fact is, don't let yourself win. It's not worth it. You have to keep pushing, because even if it seems worthless sometimes, you'll realize someday that what really mattered was the friends you made on the way to the top, not necessarily the 'tangible' rewards that everyone seems to want.

    But the only way to make friends is to get out there and try. You can't keep running from the future and hoping that it doesn't catch up to you. It catches up to everyone eventually, and you'll have to face it when it comes. So go get a job somewhere closeby, and/or go back to school, get your life together. What else are you gonna do, sit on a forum all day?
    I'm just not satisfied with any possible future that I can see. I don't want to just "get my life together," because that's useless. If I'm never getting what I want out of it, I don't see why I should push without reason.

    It really isn't about tangible rewards... so much as one specific need I have that's so expensive and complicated I'll never be able to do anything about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's not so bad. Find a job, then get a loan based on that income in order to facilitate getting to/keeping the job.

    Education is an important economic signal, but it is mostly useless in getting you the experience or knowledge you need (depending on the actual job). Any job you get will help you get out of that pattern, and if you are serious about moving forward, experience first and education second will get you farther (especially now that online courses are becoming more universal - but you have to handle work + education).

    The only thing to note is that you really need to perform and work in order for this path to be successful. A lot of people take the other approach - get an education, feel entitled. That's way more stagnant. The most important thing is to work your way up - to always perform under every circumstance.
    It's just so hard to stay focused on the long-term, when short-term it feels like I'm doing a lot of extra work just to live at the same standard I'm used to (possibly less), and won't see a benefit for a long time. I just hate the way things are set up. It's too... hard, limited, drawn-out, confining, driven, and inaccessible. Like one of those old video games where you had to practice for a long time and have some innate talent/reflexes just to get past the first level, and then practice just as hard to get past the second one. And if you lost, you started over. No saving the game.

    I'll probably end up doing what you suggest once I can make myself, though.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    impossible
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    give up...hardly any point...no matter what I do...what's the point...I'm not even sure...really hard...give up...why bother...worthless, messy, boring, and slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    ...useless...never be able to
    did you ever consider that it might be more of an attitude problem than anything else?

  3. #13
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    dont psych yourself out, it will take a lot of work and time, but you still deal with it on a day-by-day basis, so focus on what you can do today, even just this moment. don't let fear of failure cause you to give up, your goals are entirely possible and it's never too late!

    start with something within walking distance, save up for a cheap, used efficient car (it's expensive but necessary if you want any semblance of the life you want) then find a new job within your increased travel radius that utilizes your skills in something you are good at. work hard, get a raise/promotion (or find a better job with the experience under your belt) continue until you can afford your own apartment and become self-sufficient. once you get there, id bet you will find yourself making new goals for yourself.

    this is something almost every adult goes through, and part of their confidence is finding out that they could do all these things on their own, and that it's really not so bad. personally, i moved to the city when i was 18 with not much more than 1 month of rent. not going to say it was easy, but going through that experience will teach you a lot and give you a perspective you wouldn't have expected, the lives of other adults will start to make more sense.
    Oh, just saw your post. Yeah, I can see some of this, but the main goal I had... it's really frustrating that it's going to come at the end of all this, and I'll have had to do so much and deal with so many people like I am now, when being how I am now is what's bothering me and making me unmotivated in the first place.

    Your post is more encouraging than a lot of what I've heard so far, though.

    did you ever consider that it might be more of an attitude problem than anything else?
    Probably, but the drawn-out, complicated, unpredictably impacted process that doesn't allow much room for error that I'll have to deal with in order to get anything more than a baseline existence definitely contributes to it.

    Attitude problems reinforced by an aspect of life you have no control over are the hardest to fix, though. It's very difficult when most of what I hear is exactly what's creating the attitude: "buckle down, get it together, long-term, priorities, plan, sacrifice, make do" etc. Not many people tell me it's not as bad as I think, I'm always being told it's as bad as I think and worse. I mean, I'd be willing to do all that if it was to get the thing I wanted before it was too late. But I'm being told to do it while settling for far less than I want? That's too much to swallow.

    Your previous post (which I thank you very much for) is the only one that has tried to give me a more positive perspective, almost everyone else tries to take my perspective, slams it into the ground, and tell me it's not bad enough, point out even more things I should worry about, and that even as bad as it is, I should still want what little I can get. Which really annoys me.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    most people can do it, you're a lot smarter than the average person, youll figure it out

    also, that's just the nature of most advice--nobody wants to be the one responsible for advising you to put yourself out there and take a risk (in this case, on yourself for the sake of your situation) so most advice is usually cautionary. that's not to say it's easy, everyone has rough patches, but those are just as important to experiencing and learning life as anything.

  5. #15
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    What's this "progress" business?

    Any development comes from within. Anything else is just stuff. Me, I'm coming ever closer to getting a grip on what's going on with me.

    Other than that... so long as I can pay the rent, I'm fine.

  6. #16
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat as the original OP, just getting out of a job that i had for 8 years and starting anew. Made a mistake and didn't go to college first. Now i'm paying the price.

    But Athenian, you need to build up your self confidence first. Nothing is hard as long as you put your mind into it. Social awkwardness is just a state of mind. You can overcome it. You came converse online, just do whatever your doing here and transfer it in the real world. Of course if your not socially inept you have to expect couple of failures. But that's part of the learning experience.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  7. #17
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    most people can do it, you're a lot smarter than the average person, youll figure it out

    also, that's just the nature of most advice--nobody wants to be the one responsible for advising you to put yourself out there and take a risk (in this case, on yourself for the sake of your situation) so most advice is usually cautionary. that's not to say it's easy, everyone has rough patches, but those are just as important to experiencing and learning life as anything.
    Okay, that actually makes a lot of sense. The irony is that I'm already inclined to be cautious, so the advice hurts more than it helps, and causes me to just give up. Thanks for helping me see what was going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    What's this "progress" business?

    Any development comes from within. Anything else is just stuff. Me, I'm coming ever closer to getting a grip on what's going on with me.

    Other than that... so long as I can pay the rent, I'm fine.
    True, I suppose it does. I know that on some level. It's just that there's a specific goal I feel like I need to reach.

    I suppose that is why I don't feel a strong motivation to do anything, because the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The only thing that can motivate me to buckle down and get serious is Fe's goal. Fe shuts down the moment it's told it can't plan to get what it wants, and says "Let Ti handle it, I don't want any part of this." At that point, Ti just keeps forcing me to do the bare minimum required to survive and get access to stuff to analyze, and won't do anything more. It's apathetic about everything else. Se will then waste resources on physical comfort (like food, video games, and wasting time online) since I can't have anything I really want anyway.

    So, basically, unless I feel that I can realistically plan towards the end I want, I can't motivate myself to buckle down and get serious at all, merely because it makes sense and might benefit me in some unforeseen way. It's kind of a weakness. Basically, it's like my J only applies to goals that matter to me for some reason.

  8. #18
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Well, you should do what you care about. Nobody will tell you that education is necessary if you want a job you can live off, while you develop other type of interests, that maybe make your life much more fulfilling than having a demanding and time-consuming job.
    So, I think that if - at least at the start - you don't look for something very ambitious, then you will be fine with dealing with your living expenses. Eventually, you never know where life will bring you - and the time devoted to your pastime could evolve into some additional money.
    I've seen some friends taking this path, and they seem reasonably happy.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #19
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Here's how I currently see my life:



    The thing is, everything in life requires money. Once you have a reliable income, and transportation, a lot of opportunities open up that make it possible to move forward. It won't happen fast, but you can make progress.

    The glitch in the system, of course, is the difficulty in procuring a job and reliable transportation in the first place. You don't have a source of monthly income, so reliable transportation is difficult to obtain. Without reliable transportation, it's difficult to get or keep a job.

    I haven't read the whole thread and i am just going to give my opinion.

    The first thing i see immediately is far to much thinking. Now granted, if your applying for jobs that are 30 miles away. Yeah your going to have a problem.
    I think sometimes you have to DO and see how you land on your feet.

    My first proper job was in Retail, i went cold calling with my CV and i landed a senior sales job and got on with it. It was only from doing the banking each lunch time that i realised just how good i was with facts and figures that i went to an agency and asked if i could work in a Bank. It was never about the money, job satisfaction everytime. Now working in the bank was boring and repetitive and since being made redundant, i am now looking to go into a caring role.

    Sometimes you just need to take a leap of faith, believe in yourself and your abilities and say to yourself 'what do i have to lose' ...
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's just so hard to stay focused on the long-term, when short-term it feels like I'm doing a lot of extra work just to live at the same standard I'm used to (possibly less), and won't see a benefit for a long time.
    Most of this is rationalization. What you are telling me is that you have no interest in breaking your current situation. It is external pressure, and the realization that change will come to you one way or another, that is prompting you to think about moving on. In short, you are afraid of what this means and are avoiding the issue.

    The first thing to realize is that you are saying is not rational - that the extra work for the same standard is also not rational. You can plot this easily - how long can your current standard possible last vs your eventual outcome.

    Also realize there is nothing wrong with this. Very few things in life, if anything, are actually rational. What it does mean is that you cannot trust your own reasons for (not) doing something, and look to resolve them so that you can do the best thing for yourself.

    I just hate the way things are set up. It's too... hard, limited, drawn-out, confining, driven, and inaccessible. Like one of those old video games where you had to practice for a long time and have some innate talent/reflexes just to get past the first level, and then practice just as hard to get past the second one. And if you lost, you started over. No saving the game.
    Life isn't really like that, it just feels like it for some... including myself. The analogy I use is the 'grind'. Unfortunately, it's true for a lot of personalities... they find it difficult to embrace things.

    But I think you are still young enough to answer the question - what do you do in your free time? Try to answer it early in life. I don't have an answer anymore. A decade+ into your working life, if you have 'grinded' yourself into a hole, that question just cannot be answered.

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