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View Poll Results: Do you think same-sex marriage should be legal?

Voters
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  • Yes and I'm an NF.

    48 35.56%
  • Yes and I'm an NT.

    51 37.78%
  • Yes and I'm an SP.

    10 7.41%
  • Yes and I'm an SJ.

    4 2.96%
  • No and I'm an NF.

    5 3.70%
  • No and I'm an NT.

    4 2.96%
  • No and I'm an SP.

    2 1.48%
  • No and I'm an SJ.

    7 5.19%
  • I don't know and I'm an NF.

    2 1.48%
  • I don't know and I'm an NT.

    1 0.74%
  • I don't know and I'm an SP.

    1 0.74%
  • I don't know and I'm an SJ.

    0 0%
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Results 71 to 80 of 258

  1. #71
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yup. Pretty much everything I said above: "OMG IMPENDING DOOM THE CULTURE WILL BE DESTROYED!"

    I think it only plays well in the really right-wing segments, they're losing moderates (and Gen Y and younger) over that one.



    yeah, "Amazon Women on the Moon" spoofed one of those public service messages -- the fear tactics included someone turning into the Wolfman (because of smoking cigarettes) and being locked in a dungeon for the rest of his life, and someone else crashing their car off a high cliff due to losing their sight due to STDs.
    hilarious! i know! the levels they stoop to and they think they're the rational ones! like that actually makes sense in their world. wtf!

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    When an argument against a position is only effective if it makes a false connection to inspire the most fear possible, it says a lot about the integrity of the original position. It really can't be argued against on its own merits. It is an example of flagrant prejudice. There is not a rational or ethical position that can firmly make a case against gay marriage. It is too clearly within the rights of an individual citizen in a democracy.
    exactly...very well said.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Except that in these situations, fear of the unknown -> expecting the worst to happen -> tendency to fight ANY change just because it's change, rather than because it's the best option overall, big picture.
    To take that thought a little further, fear of the unknown is what causes prejudice.

    Which brings us back to the topic of this thread. Same sex couples should enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other adult couple, including the right to get married.

  3. #73
    Sniffles
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    Do you think same-sex marriage should be legal?
    No. And weak appeals to abstract individual "rights" will not sway me. Neither will the argument of claiming that religion and law should have nothing to due with each other; not least of which because legal precepts are always built upon theological presuppositions. Need we forget much of Western law is built upon theological Canon law, especially the modern concept of "rule by law".

  4. #74
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    To take that thought a little further, fear of the unknown is what causes prejudice.
    I don't think that is exactly it... Pre-judging is really just a short cut heuristic so that we don't have to reprocess everything from scratch. It is lazy thinking to some degree, but we all do it to various degrees - it's fundamental to pattern searching, even simply associations (ie: I order a hamburger from a menu - I have a 'concept' in mind of what it is.)

    The problem is that the heuristics can be formed on good and bad principles. For instance, racism and the like can be formed by a combination of different biases (ie: the way others act, selection bias in the media, associations... but also tribal matters, differences, etc)... and likewise, good reasons, like the hamburger.

    Underneath all that is the resistance of change... and with that, the need to have an opinion or judge something. The mind actually segments 'conclusions' into two different categories - for or against. Once you have associated a conclusion with a for/against category, the actual process of thinking about them changes - I mean this in a biological sense. This is what you see happening in some of the extreme cases (including those that Jennifer is talking about). They start to filter information out, create the strangest associations and lose all perspective.

    So it isn't fear of the unknown exactly... it's more the fear of 'others', in a very primal sense, and is supported by very deep and very strong mechanisms.

  5. #75
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    I agree it's a mechanism we all use. I was intentionally simplifying the concept, fearing differences is the trigger for prejudice. What happens after that comes down to the individual and how rationally they deal with that fear.

  6. #76
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think that's sort of what happened in regard to racial civil rights in the 50's though, correct? People "broke the law" in order to draw attention to the violations of the rights of American citizens.
    Yeah but that raises a rather tricky question of how one discerns which laws should be obeyed and which ones you can break.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah but that raises a rather tricky question of how one discerns which laws should be obeyed and which ones you can break.
    Tricky only when you need others to tell you how you should feel about certain things.

  8. #78
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    I agree it's a mechanism we all use. I was intentionally simplifying the concept, fearing differences is the trigger for prejudice. What happens after that comes down to the individual and how rationally they deal with that fear.
    Agreed.


    The interesting thing about watching the mechanic (and related to "how rationally they deal with that fear.") is that once the association is made, even very rational people stretch themselves massively far to maintain their original viewpoint. You get 'creative' people that just make stuff up - and truly end up believing it, or you get associators that somehow connect all sorts of fears - but don't really believe it and avoid breaking the connections at all costs...

    And so on. This is one of the reasons why I use the phrase 'probability of this being true' whenever I find myself closing off. Realizing that there is doubt to my conclusions seems to break the association trap... most of the time.

    --

    As for the OP, I think that a uniform standard of legal rights/contracts should be created, and it should be called marriage... So, for all intents and purposes, yes, I do think it should be legal.

  9. #79
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    oh that produced a hilarious lil visual scene in my head...my god...it reminds me of the ads they used to play in the 50's about how smoking marijuana cigarettes would make you some crazed sex fiend thief crazy person...come on people!!
    minus the thief and crazy part, i think more people should smoke marijuana cigs. it'd make the world a happier place.

  10. #80
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    Why shouldn't it be? No matter what your own morality may dictate to you, you're not going to stop two people who love each other from being together, so why not let them get married? Why torture other people?

    And I don't like it when folks use the Bible as a defense for "No" because Jesus said something along the lines of love thy neighbor, do not judge lest ye be judged and let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.

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