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View Poll Results: Do you think same-sex marriage should be legal?

Voters
135. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes and I'm an NF.

    48 35.56%
  • Yes and I'm an NT.

    51 37.78%
  • Yes and I'm an SP.

    10 7.41%
  • Yes and I'm an SJ.

    4 2.96%
  • No and I'm an NF.

    5 3.70%
  • No and I'm an NT.

    4 2.96%
  • No and I'm an SP.

    2 1.48%
  • No and I'm an SJ.

    7 5.19%
  • I don't know and I'm an NF.

    2 1.48%
  • I don't know and I'm an NT.

    1 0.74%
  • I don't know and I'm an SP.

    1 0.74%
  • I don't know and I'm an SJ.

    0 0%
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Results 221 to 230 of 258

  1. #221
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I don't see why not, yes I know same as most people in this thread.

    But my dad pointed out before mixed marriage were legal, people were making the same arguments against legalizing as they are today for gay marriage, so eventually gay marriage will be legal. I believe it will, I'll be suprised if it never is legal.

    Although it be nice to be able to ask strangers on the street about their sexuality, I don't mean like all the time, but the other day I was hanging out with my friend and he saw a guy running and was like he's so hot. So then we saw the same guy again, and I wanted to ask "are you gay? because my friend's into you," now I know even if he was gay he might not have been into my friend, but their's more of a chance then if he were straight. But I couldn't ask without looking rude.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #222
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    In a democracy, laws reflect the needs of the constituents.

    Maybe family had a different definition 200 years ago, but the culture has undergone radical and irreversible changes, exacerbated by the globilization of communition and tech advances... everything is interconnected, information flows freely, people are exposed to a multitude of varied experiences and no longer live in an insular world where the isolated community's values can persist for generations without wavering.

    The information flux (1) offers alternate perspectives, which creates competition in the "ideas/values" marketplace, letting people better find values that reflect them and (2) allows for the possibility of family structures NOT based on genetics or geographical location, which used to be the basis for family in the past and leading to certain conservative expectations of what family "had to naturally be."

    Note I'm not discussing "values," I'm discussing the realities of world framework; the world/culture has changed, and so the system that fits naturally within those constraints is necessarily different from the past one. Trying to maintain an old system in the face of a world that is radically different is an unenviable and impossible task. It's like trying to run TSR-80 software on a Pentium computer, eventually it either won't work or it won't be worth the trouble.

    Bottom line: Gen Y's and younger (and most Gen X's) are part of the new framework and thus have no connection to the old; they are not going to cling to an old system that no longer reflects the reality they live in. The main defenders of the "old way" are people who existed in the prior frame, but the world and culture has moved on -- not in terms of values but in its very composition, which in turn drives new values -- and that's why this whole shift is inevitable.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #223
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    No it isn't. However, it's still the logical fallacy of making an argument Ad nauseam.
    You seem more confused than I thought. There is no "logical fallacy" in repeating an argument. I know what ad nauseum means - it's a commonly used term. Thanks? Also, please don't refer me to Wikipedia in the future - it's a poor source of information.

    Do you know what a logical fallacy is? I ask this in complete sincerity. You could argue that belaboring the same point is a fallacious form of reasoning. However, there is no logical inconsistency implied in ad nauseum. The same logical or illogical point could be repeated as a form of deflection.

    We are in complete agreement on a single point, you have been repeating your invalid argument and methods of deflection ad nauseum . Black Cat, this one's for you -- I'm also surprised Peguy why you didn't add what Thomas Aquinas had to say on the subject since that would have been relevant as well.

  4. #224
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    The lame thing is, were it not for religion, this whole debate would be short-lived. Most people just wouldn't care enough to fight it.
    I think there are two major sides to this - religion is one, where doctrine acts as a barrier for change. They become entrenched in their belief system. But the resistance to change, to norms, is also very hard... with or without religion. The initial general reaction to gay marriage is going to be negative, absent any other positive associations. It'll be temporary... you can see as it gets more and more attention and more people think it out rationally, the resistance fades and eventually the old norm is eroded into the new norm. Progress takes time... *shrug* I don't think of it as a bad thing, I think of it as only letting the worthy changes through.

    I'm still laughing about 'gay marriage destroys family' and 'procreation', given that gay marriage would increase family strength and help raise children for gays/lesbians that want families. There are only two outcomes - gay/lesbians couples will want kids and won't have the right tools to raise their kids... or they won't want to have kids (and aren't going to have them by accident!). Sounds... just like a normal couple. I now await some variation on the theme "that's always how it has been".

    edit: clarified meaning

  5. #225
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Didn't say it did. If you'll look at my first post in this thread, I'm not against gay marriage. I was simply responding to Athenian's post about not understanding the importance of family.
    Ah, sorry, misunderstood.

    I actually am interested in hearing the answer, though, for anyone who does think this way.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  6. #226
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I know lots of gay couples with kids. Some adopt, some find other ways (artificial insemination, surrogacy, or just good old-fashioned sex with the opposite sex). Most of the settled gay couples I know either have children or want to have them someday.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #227
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I know lots of gay couples with kids. Some adopt, some find other ways (artificial insemination, surrogacy, or just good old-fashioned sex with the opposite sex). Most of the settled gay couples I know either have children or want to have them someday.
    Yup... just to be clear, I mean that I find the argument that marriage is sacrosanct (and thus gays should not be allowed to marry) because it is needed to have/raise children ridiculous. Marriage has a great deal to do with raising children and supporting a family unit, yes... So, if one believes that marriage is needed for this, denying it to those that want to have a family is... counterproductive. It should be a reason for it, not against it.

  8. #228
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Yup... just to be clear, I mean that I find the argument that marriage is sacrosanct (and thus gays should not be allowed to marry) because it is needed to have/raise children ridiculous. Marriage has a great deal to do with raising children and supporting a family unit, yes... So, if one believes that marriage is needed for this, denying it to those that want to have a family is... counterproductive. It should be a reason for it, not against it.
    I totally agree. I must have misunderstood your "I doubt gays/lesbians will be hopping on the procreation bandwagon" comment.

    I guess typically, though, those who believe gays should not be allowed to marry also believe they should not raise children. I think they are entitled to that opinion, but I wonder why it's the one they want in public law when they also probably believe children would be better off raised in Christian households. Why do they recognize that they can't dictate whether non-Christians can have children, but not that they can't dictate whether non-heterosexuals can?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #229
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    ..............

  10. #230
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Progress takes time... *shrug* I don't think of it as a bad thing, I think of it as only letting the worthy changes through.
    +1

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