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  1. #51
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Race doesn't really exist.
    This is the idea that, because the lines are blurry and ill-defined when you look closely, there are therefore no lines at all.

    Hmmm.

  2. #52
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Short version. Bad book. Many biases. Very irritating. Don't base your views on it.

    Reasons could be anything you could think of. Sunlight. Diet. Education. Family size. Heating systems.



    (edit: God damn cut off messages. *fists in the air*)
    Sure, but East Asians consistently score higher than whites (East Asians typically 105 in average and whites typically 100 in average). How do you explain that, if it’s not down to heritage?

    (Wikipedia link: Race and intelligence (test data) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

  3. #53
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    Sure, but East Asians consistently score higher than whites (East Asians typically 105 in average and whites typically 100 in average). How do you explain that...?
    It may have a great deal to do with the cultural value that each group puts on education and work ethic. Groups that value hard study more highly are probably more prone to study hard...of course that's a conjecture on my part, but one I'm comfortable with...which would therefore account for them doing better on a standardized test.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    Ok, Now I see. You are borderline Al Qaeda...

    .


    No. Fuck Al-Qaedaa and its Whabbi Ideology.

    You wanna try: Hizb ut-Tahrir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  5. #55
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    [I refuse to quote your quotes cause they truncate my freaking posts]
    I'm not disputing the heritage angle at all (I think I have been one of the few that said that is possible and even likely...). What I'm saying is that the evidence collected so far is heavily tainted by bias and such and that it is very dangerous to make broad assumptions based solely upon genetic factors when there are a multitude of other factors present that cannot be controlled for.

    IOW, the data is firstly not solid, then secondly, the data does not force a genetic conclusion. As such, it is very weak, although reasonable.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    My anthro prof (who was the leading forensic anthropologist for the city) explained that while there are general trends of physical differences associated with different colors of skin, there is no true biological difference that accounts for race.

    Our genes cannot be categorized into race. (Or, if they once could, they are long past being able to be categorized.) It's one masssiiivveee gradient and people from all races have quirks about them that are "characteristic" of other races.

    Race doesn't really exist.

    Actually, there are some differences between races, like dominant blood type, skin colour and quality, average body-type, teeth and eyes pigmentation, apparition of "wisdom" teeth, etc.
    They are mostly growth and pigmentation factors, results of adaption.
    I think I would mostly agree with the statement that races do not exist, in the context that differences are mostly morphological

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm not disputing the heritage angle at all (I think I have been one of the few that said that is possible and even likely...). What I'm saying is that the evidence collected so far is heavily tainted by bias and such and that it is very dangerous to make broad assumptions based solely upon genetic factors when there are a multitude of other factors present that cannot be controlled for.

    IOW, the data is firstly not solid, then secondly, the data does not force a genetic conclusion. As such, it is very weak, although reasonable.
    Well, then we probably don't disagree much. Even though collected evidence is far from perfect, I definitely think a lot points towards differences in average IQs between “races” have a considerable heritage factor. The brain size argument is pretty convincing to me, and I cannot see any convincing explanations for the gap in average intelligence between East Asians and whites other than heritage. I feel about 90 % certain there is a considerable heritage factor, my guess is you would say you are something like 60 % sure.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    My anthro prof (who was the leading forensic anthropologist for the city) explained that while there are general trends of physical differences associated with different colors of skin, there is no true biological difference that accounts for race.

    Our genes cannot be categorized into race. (Or, if they once could, they are long past being able to be categorized.) It's one masssiiivveee gradient and people from all races have quirks about them that are "characteristic" of other races.

    Race doesn't really exist.
    Bogus P.C. bullshit.

    Congratulations, you are a sheep.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  9. #59
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    Seriously, odds are there are differences in intelligence between races, not important differences, but differences nonetheless.

    It would be quite incredible to discover otherwise, yet for some peculiar reason, people insist that in the absence of absolutely conclusive evidence, we should default to the view that there are no differences... that is, we should default to believing the least likely theory... huh?
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #60
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    ...
    I'd say I'm 99&#37; sure there is an effect, if not 100%. I guess my question is if the effect constitutes a dominant (ie: 75%), very high (ie: 50%), moderate (ie: 15%) or low (ie: <5%) contribution... I currently believe it is somewhere between moderate and very high, but I accept that since "race" are generally environmentally confined, it could be much lower (much like the propensity of heart attacks is now diet based rather than genetic). Instead of race, perhaps using particular genetic lineages would be better. "Families" would be likely to have higher averages. The degree of drift and what not plays an important role here.

    What would be sufficient to determine how valid the test would be... I'd say that it would require a random sample (including rural areas) to be placed in a fixed environment for each of the "races", sampling roughly ~1000 or so for each. Their children would have to be removed from their parents and raised in subgroups of mixed races. That would allow a far clearer example of how purely genetic IQ is. Along with that, the group should probably go 4-5 generations worth of testing, both mixed and not.

    The problem inherently sits with the test. You can't use the same test for two significantly different groups of people (social differences) and then compare the results. You can't even just measure immigrants, since the factors involved in immigrating causes bias. The whole thing is just so messed up now because it was used for racial dominance... just trying to look into it now politically incorrect... but at the same time, no one is willing to re-engineer the intelligence tests for this kind of study, so the bias remains. Both sides are correct... but they are both very correct in being wrong, which makes the whole situation ugly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Congratulations, you are a sheep.
    I'd love to know how you would objectively differentiate race. Cause genetically we don't count as sub-species even at the tail ends... Our genetic drift is very very small.

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