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Thread: Which religion?

  1. #41
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Default My apologies for writing all of this so later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    I have a problem with organised religion, spirituality is very important to me but I have no interest getting involved with any set religion, if it works for others thats great but my experience has shown me nothing but hypocrisy or worse. The beliefs and practices of Buddhism appeal the most but never in an organised way.

    I believe religion should be looked at from a selfish pov in the sense that you must do it for your own deeper spiritual reasons, I have no problem with people who look at it for the reasons you mentioned but that is certainly not the way I see it nor would it provide any kind of spiritual comfort for me. A sense of community is great, helping others is great but these things are not the same as your spiritual beliefs and do not need to be mixed, I can get involved with different charities and non-religions community groups for the kind of support youve mentioned.

    Again, great that it works that way for you but I would never attend church because it promotes good 'anything', I would go for my own spiritual needs or not at all.

    You have to recognize that some people see organized religion as shallow in terms of their spiritual needs, what it can provide to you it cannot provide to me. Neither is right, just different and what works for each of us personally.
    I think the very act of being religious is a selfish mindset. We're selfish creatures as humans, and holding onto and clinging to a faith that could change the way we talk, act, and engage with people regardless of their feelings on the matter is a selfish step to start. It's something personal.

    I just don't think the church gets all the credit and takes a lot of the heat from people. Much the way people bitch at the president about things he's not even largely responsible for. He's the head of the country, if something goes right or wrong, people look to him. It's the same with the church. But many people sound like they'd burn a church down before stepping into one.

    They're just not that bad. I'd think if you stepped into Christianity in a selfish manner, you would step into a church with the same manner, wouldn't you say? "I need religion." So you become Christian. "I need help." So you go to a psychiatrist. "I need supprt." .. THe natural decision would be to go a church and pay your small dues for that support. I'd venture as far to say that people who aren't aware of how important spirituality is on their own NEED to go to church to at least experience once a week in one form or another. I dont' think it's a self-less decision being in a church whatsoever. You can certainly be in one without becoming a saint and compromising your own spirituality and who you are. If nothing else, you learn other people's opinions on similar topics and get new eyes and words to aspects of the religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    I appreciate this post. Catholics get a bad rep because most of us consider our own religion a list of customs and rules. If that's why your religion is to you, honey, that's not a religion at all--that's an organized set of things that make you think you're being religious. I do go to Mass every week. Not because I think God will smite me if I don't, but because I want to do that, as a little sacrifice, to show my belief in him. Same goes for the tithes, too; it's especially nice if you're helping bring that money physically to someone in need. I go to confession not to "undo" my mistakes, but to admit them freely--and apologetically--so that I can be stronger the next time temptation comes my way. I'm against the idea of my religion being a litany of do's and do-not's, and it hurts to see people think it's that way. So again, thank you, kyueei.

    Um, getting off-topic, sorry! Basically I like Catholicism too much to leave it. I feel connected to the world spiritually through it.
    ^ This is exactly my point. There's something about a church that promotes spirituality for a christian. I'm not even christian, but when I step inside of a church, I can feel it. I can feel it in the walls, and the humming of the sort of thing buildings get installed into them with the sort of thing that goes on. The singing people do, the support and love they're sharing between themselves and God with each other.. those things resound long after the sermons are over. It's a place of comfort, and a building of protection for a christian follower. It's more than money.. and definitely worth the price paid for it, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I love you dearly and respect you , but must admit I disagree with much of your response in principal, most of which is determined by the way I grew up, but I have checked/re-checked my beliefs over time as I have matured and they remain unchanged.
    Understood. Let's take a look at this.

    GIVEN:
    I'm an Army brat, I never lived anywhere more than 2 years when I was a kid, so I never bonded with or benefitted from a particular congregation. My neighbors were my family, we took care of each other, regardless of creed or anything else.
    ^ Moving around must be a real hassle for people. I was terrified at the prospect of moving a year before my graduation from high school.. I couldn't imagine moving around all the time like that.

    ELEMENTS OF MY VIEWS:
    (1) A local church is much less of a problem than a state church, national church, or international church. Why? At the local level money collected can be dispersed according to local need. At the international level, money collected is used at the discretion of leaders who have a big chance of dispersing the money in a politically motivated manner, in direct conflict with the views of many national, state, or local congregations. For instance, most Catholics would not have wanted any of their tithed $$$ or basket funds to go toward the defense of priests that commited sexual abuse against children of their parish(es) or to go toward settlements for the abused as it should not have happened in the first place.
    ^ I think both are entirely necessary. The Catholic church is a strong one due to the international level that it's on.. but since I entirely agree with the both of you that religion is a selfish deed, how you do church should also be entirely up to you. On one hand, something with international strength can help you on an international level.. but on the other hand, you might only need to go every week and keep the priests eating and help the occasional picnic. I don't think either way you go is at all wrong.. but both are necessary. If eveything was local, there'd be no cohesion or standards. Imagine a military where everything was run at the local level? The standards would be absurd and we'd be weak and generally useless.

    (2) Also, let's be real here. The first Bible was written almost 60 years after the crucifiction of Jesus Christ. Christians in Jerusalem dispersed in a radially from the city, as they thought they were next. The New Testament was as oral history for many decades, and when ultimately written down and compiled, was canonized, and hence subject to the editorial opinions of men with an agenda. If you have a room of 60 people, and you speak a simple sentence into the ear of the first person in the room, and they speak what they heard to the second person's ear, and them to the third, and so on and so forth, the 60th person's sentence when spoken to the first person in the room is NOTHING like the original verbiage. Thus, oral relay of knowledge, especially over time, is inefficient and subject to a large amount of error.
    ^ I'm not a bible nut. I don't claim know anything about the history of the Bible. What I will say is that when a poet writes a poem.. it's always subject to being interpretted differently. No art is looked at the same way twice. That's never stopped art from moving people and being an influence in their lives.. Nor will the Bible. How accurate it is doesn't stop it from being an influence, nor do I think the accuracy is the most important thing. If it were, there'd only be one form of christianity. Since I believe everyone's interpretations of the world creates a balance in the world.. I think the different aspects of interpretation are entirely necessary and needed.

    (3) The teachings of Christ are very similar to those of Rabbi Hillel, and I have heard (in a western civilization lecture as an undergraduate student 15 years ago) the simplified intent of each referred to as "Kerygma", or (1) Faith in God that he is the one true God, and (2) Love for your fellow man as if they were Christ himself (or something damn similar to that). So, I am of the belief that I can do these things without anyone telling me how to implement them in my daily life.
    I don't disagree with how you believe. Only.. You cannot borrow Christianity for all it's nifty good stuff and ignore the rest. (See Em's post below on Buddhism.) If you read the highlights of a lease when you get an apartment, and fail to read the fine print, you end up hurting and owing in the end somehow. You have to know all aspects of what is taught, not just what is always emphasized. I'm like you, I see those teachings and I say "You know, it's a good thing I believe.. to treat your fellow man well." In this, I take the teachings to heart and go on with my life with it. I do not, however, grasp that teaching and say "Well, this is the most important part, so I'm just gonn'a do the bare minimum." or claim to be a good christian because I enjoy that particular portion of the teachings.

    (4) I attended a Catholic mass about a year ago. The priest started the mass with the following statement: "Let us reflect on how we have failed to serve God this week." I looked at my 3 year old daughter, and my 6 year old daughter, and they were confused, and after they got bored and frustrated I took them home and let my wife finish attending the service. How did my sweet little girls fail to serve God that week? Kiss my a$$.
    I believe there's a portion of the bible that indicates a man being thrown with a rock tied to him if he'd steer his children wrong. Have you ever had your boss gather a bunch of people together and say, "Look, This whole breaking the pencils thing needs to quit. I'm addressing you all and saying stop it." Even if you didn't break the pencils, you're part of the group. Even if they didn't fail, they were in that group being addressed. You take in stride, and take note, and move on. It's not meant to be an insult to anyone or their children. It's an address that yes, we're sinners, and yes we have or we will soon fail to be good Christians in one way or another. We, as in the group. Not we, as in your cute innocent daughters that don't know the difference between right and wrong yet.

    (5) I am not one who feels any type of spiritual completeness out of performing random rituals, like making X's over my forehead, chin, and chest; or eating a water wafer while pretending it is the body of my God, or drinking wine from a chalice with hundreds of people's germs on it. Whatever, not for me. I feel closer to God when I help someone repair their home, help an old man start his chainsaw so he can prune his bushes, or donate money out of my paycheck every two weeks to Shriner's Children's Hospitals. That's more my cup of tea.
    I'm very ritualistic, so I will just have to plain disagree here. I think taking the time to acknowledge your service is important. Your way is just different from the ritualistic way.. There's nothing at all wrong with that, and I wouldn't at all try to criticize you for it. Some people don't see symbolism is drinking of cups and lighting candles.. For me. I'm a human. Humans are physical creatures by nature in all accounts. To physically light a candle, and take note in the form I live my life in, this is a good way to pay my dues. So I see it. I don't dislike it if no one else does.. but I would ask you not make fun of it or belittle it. No one would belittle you for helping build a house out of service.

    (6) Let's not forget that the Old Testament and the Epic of Gligamesh both contain the same great flood story (Noah's Ark ), despite being texts from different cultures in different lands. Why? Due to the eruption of the island of Delos, and the flooding of the old world (e.g. Babylon = Epic of Gilgamesh, and Israel = Old Testament) from a great tidal wave. That same tidal wave actually moved the Greek city of Knossos, on the isle of Crete, far from its original coordinates, only to be discovered by the German archaeologist Hermann Schliemann in the early 1900's, thus confirming its effect on a third culture in the region at the same time.
    And you'll have to forgive me here. I failed to see your point.

    (7) Finally, I do not appreciate the religious right getting behind the political machine of this nation, forcing anti-abortion legislation, and then turning a blind eye to helping families with young children that are in need of money, support, and guidance. You want to exert your will on others so they cannot have an abortion, then you get to help pay for and care for the kids as far as I am concerned, and I am not pro-abortion, I am against it, but I do not feel it right ot force my will on others as such through legislation.
    When there are humans involved in anything, there will be human error and misjudgment. When it's on a huge scale, there will be scandal, and just plain wrong done. The more power within a human, the more corrupt they can be, and thus the more corrupt they tend to be. I don't think the ideals of the church should be blamed on human error and regarded as wrong altogether for that reason. The local churches you hold in higher regard have little to do with international affairs and the dealings with the corrupt across the ocean. Just the same.. if a baseball player does steroids and is discovered, the entire team shouldn't be condemned.

    CONCLUSION
    So my dear friend, all I can say is that organized religion is not for everyone, me inlcuded. I do not slight anyone that benefits from particpation in it as such, but I myself have never, or at least not yet anyway, been compelled to become a participating member of any parish. My kids go to camps at local Methodist churches during Spring Break and Christmas, when school is out. I am thankful for these churches and their programs, but I remain comfortable being a consumer of their services as a neutral, third party consumer.
    For my conclusion.. I've done a lot of defending here because a lot of people don't bother with it on this forum. I believe in balance. If everyone were organized with their religion, there would be chaos. If no one had organized religion, I believe chaos would still reign. I think there's a pretty good resolve of being somewhere in the middle.. and I like moderation of everything. I think the church is a great idea, and a great concept. But certainly not for everyone. Some people just are happier with religion being within themselves, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

    I hope you don't hate me, I'm just explaining my thoughts and beliefs for the sake of honesty and clarity.
    Well, I don't think I could ever hate your Johnny Bravo-lookinass, and even if I could, it certainly wouldn't be over something retarded like a difference of opinion about something personal in nature.

    One last note, I am a big believer in God.

    [Insert plant stuff here]

    The law of conservation of energy states that energy is not created or destroyed, only that it changes form. When we die, our life energy moves on, out our physical bodies (hopefully I will still be buff when I die) and on to its next universe of existence, which I think is where it came from in the first place, in heaven with God, ready to tell him all that it experienced after he gave it free will and a body to experience a physical life with...



    -Alex
    I think the laws of energy are some of my favorite natural laws, to boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    How could anyone hate you for having an opinion and defending it so coherently? I do agree--organized religion is not for everyone. I remember once being a little kid and hearing from someone that people who weren't insert-faith-here went to hell. I bawled. I hate when people say things like that; it's pressuring people to believe in something just because YOU believe it, and that's wrong. It's so judgmental and rude. Honestly, you don't have to go church to have a firm faith, nor do you have to have a faith at all if you don't believe in anything. Like you and BlackCat said, it's personal.

    I also have mixed feelings about politics mingling with religion. Like, I'd vote for gay marriage, and you don't see Catholics promoting that...er, in fact, they're kinda against it. I dunno. Religion is such a touchy subject. Two people can have the same religion and believe still different things.
    You're absolutely right about the first part. The second part reminds me of the experiment they did in elementary where they said everyone with brown eyes couldn't go to recess or eat cookies, while everyone with blue or hazel eyes could. I started to cry, since my best friend back then was brown eye'd. I didn't know it was a lesson, or that we'd all flip flop the next day.. I was upset that my friend didn't get any cookies or fun, and ended up having to be sent home because of it. My mom doesn't let me forget that I've always had my own ideals on things from the get-go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Why thank you! I don't think Kyueei would hate me, I just don't want her to kick my ass with her M-16 while wearing combat boots.
    I dunno, those muscles almost rival those of Armstrongs in Fullmetal Alchemist. Pretty intimidating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Much like "Texas Culture" or "Military Intelligence?"

    <ducks flying objects!>
    <IS TOTALLY throwing said objects!!>

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the increased popularity of Buddhism in the last 40 years or so has less to do with Buddhism's actual tenets than it has to do with its "other-ness" from Christianity. I think a lot of young people rebel against Christianity for the usual reasons and gravitate to Buddhism because the pamphlet version of it is "Hey, we don't have a lot of beliefs that are easily ridiculed by the type that ridicules religion, you don't have to do much, and it'll REALLY freak out your family. You can still be cool!" I mean, how many Americans who say they're into Buddhism actually do their devotions? I think for most Westerners that were not raised with it, Buddhism is the religious version of getting a nose ring or a tattoo.
    Thank you for writing this. This sort of thing drives me nuts. Religion is suppose to be about a personal truth and and committment. Choosing something meant to be selfish based on others takes away from the whole reason of deciding in the first place. You end up with a shakey decision, and when the factors that helped you make the decision in the first place fade away, you realize there's no foundation to your claim.
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  2. #42
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    I think I would be interested in paganism (of the non-fluffy variety) or Buddhism. I find paganism very mysterious and beautiful, and I find many ideas of Buddhism very calming and practically useful. I also like the Christian idea of a personal relationship with God. I can't really see myself actually identifying 100% with one of these religions, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Conclusion: I can't relate to the question.
    Antisocial one, if you are able to put aside the logical problems you see with certain theologies, etc. is there a specific aspect of any religion that you find appealing or emotionally moving?

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the increased popularity of Buddhism in the last 40 years or so has less to do with Buddhism's actual tenets than it has to do with its "other-ness" from Christianity. I think a lot of young people rebel against Christianity for the usual reasons and gravitate to Buddhism because the pamphlet version of it is "Hey, we don't have a lot of beliefs that are easily ridiculed by the type that ridicules religion, you don't have to do much, and it'll REALLY freak out your family. You can still be cool!" I mean, how many Americans who say they're into Buddhism actually do their devotions? I think for most Westerners that were not raised with it, Buddhism is the religious version of getting a nose ring or a tattoo.
    I think Buddhism is appealing to a lot of former Christians because it's simple. The ins and outs of Christian daily living can get super complicated. Although I'm sure Buddhism is a "fad" to some, the former Christians I know who turned to Buddhism take it seriously.
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    I suppose that since in this scenario I have seen God face to face I couldn't opt for deism, as that requires a distant, uninvolved clockmaker (though this is the only concept of God I can identify with on any level.) This would also negate the possibility of choosing Buddhism, as there is no "Creator God" in that philosophy (not that I would ever choose it anyways.)

    I guess I'd go with Unitarian Universalism, given their flexibility of beliefs (they have atheists, deists, female god worshipers, and worshipers of a traditional Christian God.) Sounds easy to me.
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  4. #44
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    <BEST RESPONSE TO MY LONG WINDEDNESS EVER!!!>

    Kyuuei, I am seriously floored at your response. In all seriousness, you made many points that have, for lack of a better term, flown completely over my head, and most likely never would have manifested in my consciousness considering the foundation of thinking/experiences that my life is based on.

    WOW.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Regarding Local Vs. International Churches:
    "I don't think either way you go is at all wrong.. but both are necessary. If eveything was local, there'd be no cohesion or standards. Imagine a military where everything was run at the local level? The standards would be absurd and we'd be weak and generally useless. "

    A fantastic analogy!!! I love it!

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Regarding The Accuracy of the Bible/It's Interpretation:
    "Since I believe everyone's interpretations of the world creates a balance in the world.. I think the different aspects of interpretation are entirely necessary and needed."

    I would have never considered this. Redundancy in storing files or digital data makes perfect sense to me. But I must confess I have been pre-disposed to prefer standards over variation in much of my professional and academic life. Something like religion, or faith, is quite personal, and does not necessarily have to conform to the same guidelines of standardization that make sense for computer files, does it? My hat is off to you once more.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Regarding Adherence to One's Faith in It's Entirety Rather than Cherry Picking from It:
    "Only.. You cannot borrow Christianity for all it's nifty good stuff and ignore the rest. (See Em's post below on Buddhism.) If you read the highlights of a lease when you get an apartment, and fail to read the fine print, you end up hurting and owing in the end somehow. "


    OK, this makes a lot of sense to me in principle, which I am big on. I will not say that I cherry pick from the Catholic faith though, as I am not going to be a liar or hypocrite and proclaim that I am a full fledged and dutifully practicing Catholic. I will say though, as I have before, that it is my abnormally strong sense of individuality (thank you, Dad!) that makes it inherently difficult for me to accept a big chunk of anything as my total dogma. I think your analogy could also be stretched to a law abiding citizen's adherence to the law of the land, right?
    QUESTION: "Are you a law abiding citizen?"
    ANSWER: "Why yes Sir, I am, but I do have issue with laws X, Y, and Z therefore do not recognize them..."

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Regarding Me Being Pi$$ed Off at the Catholic Sermon Years Ago:
    "Have you ever had your boss gather a bunch of people together and say, "Look, This whole breaking the pencils thing needs to quit. I'm addressing you all and saying stop it." Even if you didn't break the pencils, you're part of the group. Even if they didn't fail, they were in that group being addressed. You take in stride, and take note, and move on. It's not meant to be an insult to anyone or their children."


    OK, you got me again! I guess my issue is the fundamental one of my children not knowing what on Earth the priest means, and that it might settle into their minds as negative thoughts. I'll be honest, I thought I was going to hell for much of my childhood (old school Catholic teachings!) and I really don't want my kids to even consider that as I did, it really was a negative force in my life for a few years until I got over it.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Regarding Being Ritualistic:
    "I'm very ritualistic, so I will just have to plain disagree here. I think taking the time to acknowledge your service is important. Your way is just different from the ritualistic way.. There's nothing at all wrong with that, and I wouldn't at all try to criticize you for it."

    Way cool on that, we agree to disagree on this one, no harm no foul! I am off the charts ADHD and ritualism just doesn't happen in my life, especially with things that I do not have a liking for, or have not commited to of my own will and accord. Ironically enough though I am also OCD (functionally!) and I'll be damned if there is a single drop of water in my kitchen sink.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Regarding My Reference to the Old Testament / Epic of Gilgamesh:
    "<You indicated that you missed my point>"

    The only point I was trying to make here is one that a Western Civilization professor of mine made during a great lecture. Mythology (in some cases what is considered religion) was the science of the old world, it was a means for man to understand his existence and the world around him before science was understood to the degree it is today. Also, before the Internet (or global communications) existed, a huge event like the flooding of the old world was understood in isolated pools by the disparate cultures that experienced it, and documented in their mythology, such as the Old Testament, or the Epic of Gligamesh. Some biblical events do have roots in actual world events, that's all...no point really!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Regarding Corruption of the Church:
    "When there are humans involved in anything, there will be human error and misjudgment. When it's on a huge scale, there will be scandal, and just plain wrong done. The more power within a human, the more corrupt they can be, and thus the more corrupt they tend to be. I don't think the ideals of the church should be blamed on human error and regarded as wrong altogether for that reason. The local churches you hold in higher regard have little to do with international affairs and the dealings with the corrupt across the ocean. Just the same.. if a baseball player does steroids and is discovered, the entire team shouldn't be condemned. "

    I see what you are saying; I guess I am just sick of the default of sweeping huge scandals under the rug by ecclesiastical and secular organizations alike. Don't condemn the team though, I see your point.

    -------------------------------------------

    Regarding Your Conclusion:
    "For my conclusion.. I've done a lot of defending here because a lot of people don't bother with it on this forum. I believe in balance. If everyone were organized with their religion, there would be chaos. If no one had organized religion, I believe chaos would still reign. I think there's a pretty good resolve of being somewhere in the middle.. and I like moderation of everything. I think the church is a great idea, and a great concept. But certainly not for everyone. Some people just are happier with religion being within themselves, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. "


    Your conclusion ROCKS! I salute you, I really do.

    Hugs to you my friend! You are as wise as you are cool and insightful. You have no idea how many points you have hammered into my head in a single effort on such a huge and complicated topic. I seriously think its a world record.

    I knew you wouldn't hate me, but I sure as hell am glad that I dodged hard left as that 10 pound dumbbell came flying at my head a few days ago...



    Bestest regards ever,

    -Alex

  5. #45
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I have to admit, one of the most pleasent debates I've had on this forum yet. It's been a pleasure talking. But if you use a year's worth of compliments on me at once I think I'll die of all the blood rushing to my head

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I will not say that I cherry pick from the Catholic faith though, as I am not going to be a liar or hypocrite and proclaim that I am a full fledged and dutifully practicing Catholic. I will say though, as I have before, that it is my abnormally strong sense of individuality (thank you, Dad!) that makes it inherently difficult for me to accept a big chunk of anything as my total dogma. I think your analogy could also be stretched to a law abiding citizen's adherence to the law of the land, right?
    QUESTION: "Are you a law abiding citizen?"
    ANSWER: "Why yes Sir, I am, but I do have issue with laws X, Y, and Z therefore do not recognize them..."
    A very good point. What constitutes a good citizen is just as vague as what consists of a good Christian. It always seems obvious till you actually try to explain it, then you get a big blank in your head.

    I do cherry pick a lot. If something is wise and sound, I steal and it and try to apply it as my own. I'm a life-long plagiarizer of wisdom and I hope to continue to be. The difference is, I cannot claim Christianity even if I borrow it's ideals, as I do not adopt all of it. Just like someone who doesn't agree with smoking pot cannot claim to be totally law-abiding. I don't agree with the law either, but I don't smoke pot because it is still illegal.

    I'll be honest, I thought I was going to hell for much of my childhood (old school Catholic teachings!) and I really don't want my kids to even consider that as I did, it really was a negative force in my life for a few years until I got over it.
    I can't stand teachings that dictate things like masturbation being a sin and such.. We're born to have urges younger than we are capable of making adult decisions.. I cannot think someone should be blamed for the way they are created. It is a fact of life, and a part of nearly every human.

    And actually, what I used to describe this point.. It took me a long time to discover. The military is actually what helped me with that. To be punished just as severely for things you are not responsible for initially.. it either does one of two things to you: You break down, cry, and be miserable for the acts of others.. or you man-up, get a back bone, and start calling people out and making them work as a group to your benefit, and thus the group's benefit. People can't get away with bad things if everyone's going to mess you up when the lights go out.

    Regarding My Reference to the Old Testament / Epic of Gilgamesh:
    "<You indicated that you missed my point>"

    The only point I was trying to make here is one that a Western Civilization professor of mine made during a great lecture. Mythology (in some cases what is considered religion) was the science of the old world, it was a means for man to understand his existence and the world around him before science was understood to the degree it is today. Also, before the Internet (or global communications) existed, a huge event like the flooding of the old world was understood in isolated pools by the disparate cultures that experienced it, and documented in their mythology, such as the Old Testament, or the Epic of Gligamesh. Some biblical events do have roots in actual world events, that's all...no point really!
    Ah! Well, I took the context out but thought I was missing the message. Turns out I got it I agree entirely with this statement. It's one of the arguments of atheism, ne? That people just make up convenient stories to explain things until they find something more sufficient.

    It could as easily be said that God dumbs everything down for our understanding, as we're too small minded now for the complexities of his existence. The same way you tell your kid Thunder is Lightning stomping or God bowling.. since kids really don't want to hear nor understand really the actual workings of thunder.

    ... I swear you give me too much credit as well. But thank you kindly for it all
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

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    Member Vildechaya's Avatar
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    Default I am Jewish:)

    I would be just what I was born and what I am, Jewish. (Jewish Reform) It is a very nice religion. No "evangelising" or trying to bully,scare and brainwash non-believers.
    This life is to live, and obsessing about what happens after you die is just a waste of time.
    The holidays are lovely and pleasant. History & tradition and stories and songs.
    I was a Christian wanna-be (it seemed like everyone else liked it) for about 10 years-but it was not for me.
    I am happy with the religion I have Being Jewish is perfect for me
    INtP...RCUEI primary I...5w4...INTp... ILI...The Artist Formerly Known As Car!ssa

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    Senior Member aguanile's Avatar
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    Default

    I think Buddhism.

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    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Default

    I think far to much thought has been put into this one .. OK ..

    Jedi, if i had to choose .. or i would put a gun to my temple and go out on my terms ..

    Easy.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

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    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Default

    Shamanism. The god I saw would be a Lynx most likely, and we would work our water magic as we flowed through time.
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    Nope, I used to be anti-religion.

    I was raised a staunch Jehovah's Witness. I had my reasons to hate religion after I left that group. Personally, I felt religion was poisonous.

    Now I don't care what religion someone is... And I'm far less judgmental about religion.

    Good for you! I am glad you are free!
    All Controlling "thought-police" religion SUCKS!

    I have never been a Jehovas witness- I was a Christian-(Evangelical annoying sort!) for more than 10 years. The group value is a less harsh than the Jehovas Witness one if you are only considering the "happy-joyful" outer demeanor of the people as seen by the casual onlooker.
    But the message is much the same. Ex-communication from heaven for a hideous eternity in H-E-L-L (either fire and brimstone OR an eternal seperation from God kind of like an endless abyss of mono-polar depressionfor ex-believers. (as opposed to being expelled from the church and staying dead when you die and not geting to join in the eternally blissful picnic as shown in Watchtower
    INtP...RCUEI primary I...5w4...INTp... ILI...The Artist Formerly Known As Car!ssa

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