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  1. #181
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Sona, I'm going to make an assertion based upon what I emphatically assure you is ample observation:

    If you are like you say you are and are not, in fact, a rather clever and dedicated troll, you will never be happy adhering to a strict religion.

    I've seen your situation, gosh, so many times that I'll outline what your life will be like for you right now:

    -You will analyze your religious upbringing, focusing on the good and positive aspects.
    -You will do your damnedest to convince yourself that these positive aspects are enough for you to both deny your lack of genuine faith and, more importantly on a psychological level, a huge portion of your personality.
    -This will work for awhile. Then your true self will assert itself with a vengeance.
    -You will feel horrible, repent, etc., and most likely repeat the same process numerous times.

    It's at this point where the people I've seen in this cycle diverge. I've known several people who finally worked up the moxy to leave the religion behind and be true unto themselves. I've known people who committed suicide. The latter is an extreme to be sure, but no one's mind can deal with the repression-to-indulgence-to-horrible-guilt cycle indefinitely.

    Well, at any rate, I only post this because I've seen the precise situation so many times that it's like living in a house overlooking a dangerous curve.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Sona, I'm going to make an assertion based upon what I emphatically assure you is ample observation:

    If you are like you say you are and are not, in fact, a rather clever and dedicated troll, you will never be happy adhering to a strict religion.

    I've seen your situation, gosh, so many times that I'll outline what your life will be like for you right now:

    -You will analyze your religious upbringing, focusing on the good and positive aspects.
    -You will do your damnedest to convince yourself that these positive aspects are enough for you to both deny your lack of genuine faith and, more importantly on a psychological level, a huge portion of your personality.
    -This will work for awhile. Then your true self will assert itself with a vengeance.
    -You will feel horrible, repent, etc., and most likely repeat the same process numerous times.

    It's at this point where the people I've seen in this cycle diverge. I've known several people who finally worked up the moxy to leave the religion behind and be true unto themselves. I've known people who committed suicide. The latter is an extreme to be sure, but no one's mind can deal with the repression-to-indulgence-to-horrible-guilt cycle indefinitely.

    Well, at any rate, I only post this because I've seen the precise situation so many times that it's like living in a house overlooking a dangerous curve.

    You're good. I am at that position. I repent every-day, even thought I say I don't believe sometimes. When I'm away from the devils I repent.

  3. #183
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    You're good. I am at that position. I repent every-day, even thought I say I don't believe sometimes. When I'm away from the devils I repent.
    The only thing you're away from are the outlets for your personal nature. Your nature won't change substantially any time in the near future, regardless of external factors.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  4. #184
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    I agree with you Mycroft.

    Sona about your belief that having a wife who has all those attributes you listed being the answer to all your prayers you are wrong, this is how it will go.

    You will marry, in the beginning you will lenjoy it, you will be happy, she will most likely meet all your subconscious desires which is why you will be happy for a little while, but your conscious desires, the obediance and servile role you want for her is something you will have to assert. You will get jealous and possesive especially if she has an independent streak (which subconsciously you love).

    As you assert your authority over her, the parts of her that met your subconscious needs will begin to wilt under your dominance. You will find yourself becoming angry as the unseen connection you had vanishes, and in reality the person she has become (obediant, subserviant) doesn't satisfy you. You won't know why you are getting angry, you won;t understand that you have dominated the things you first loved about her, out of her, or that it's your fault she doesn't satisfy you anymore. You changed her to fit your conscious desires, which weren't the real needs, the ones she initially filled when you first married.

    You will blame her, still not looking at your subconscious desires for what your mate should have been like, you will think she isn't trying hard enough to become the idea that only exists consciously for you.

    You want her to be strong enough to keep you on the right path, but you have dominated the will out of her, the spirit out of her, her vibrance will be gone. She won't have the courage to push you to go pray, not when it could result in yet another rant/smack about how she isn't a good enough wife, the one you thought you wanted, the one that was never really what you wanted.

    In the end she will hate you, for using force be it mental, physical, or religious rules to get what you want and to control her, in the end you will be the master of your own destruction, and will end up with nothing. Even if she never leaves you will still end up with nothing except a model of what you SAID you wanted, leaving you constantly disatisfied, and still always blaming her for those feelings.

    That's one of the ways it could go if you don't sort your head before you get married, actually learn to recognise what it is your subconscious needs when it comes to a mate, as your list contradicts itself often. Until you do that all you will do is constantly try to force her into playing these roles, and totally destroy the parts of her that matter.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  5. #185
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    I know what I need to do... I need to list all my problems down. And really commit to fixing them. I really don't want to break my wife. I need to identify my problems first. I'm getting married soon to a woman I don't even know I love or not, well that's probably because I don't believe in love. I know what I will end up doing... I know I will end up abusing her one way or another unintentionally and I will be completely oblivious to this.

    I just hate myself why I'm I so stupid why am I destroying my own life. I should stop blaming others, its me! I have so much anger inside my...

  6. #186
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I know what I need to do... I need to list all my problems down. And really commit to fixing them. I really don't want to break my wife. I need to identify my problems first. I'm getting married soon to a woman I don't even know I love or not, well that's probably because I don't believe in love. I know what I will end up doing... I know I will end up abusing her one way or another unintentionally and I will be completely oblivious to this.

    I just hate myself why I'm I so stupid why am I destroying my own life. I should stop blaming others, its me! I have so much anger inside my...
    Look dude. This is the last bit of armchair psychology I'll pull. Your problems aren't that deep or difficult:

    You're trying to be the human being your family expects you to be, rather than the one you are. If you were in love with this girl, it wouldn't be a question. Saying "I think I might be in love but I'm not sure" is like saying "I might have a pounding headache and not even realize it!!!" I hate to sound cheesy and pat, but it's one of those things where you'll know.

    You need to grow a pair, assert yourself, and lead your own life on your own terms. Your family will forgive you with time. Besides, you said you were tired of living off your old man's money anyway, didn't you?

    Edit: (And for goodness' sake, don't get married yet!)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  7. #187
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    yes am tried of living off my dads money and living with my family and religious nut cases within my family.

    The problems I still believe in Allah sometimes. I fear him. I don't want to go to hell for being wrong. And I want to believe in Allah. It makes you part of something. You can be proud of things sometimes. Its like supporting your favorite cricket team if you get what I mean.

    Edit* I have no opinion I have to get married by Dec I'll be married!!! am in a freakish way looking forward to it.

  8. #188
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    yes am tried of living off my dads money and living with my family and religious nut cases within my family.

    The problems I still believe in Allah sometimes. I fear him. I don't want to go to hell for being wrong. And I want to believe in Allah. It makes you part of something. You can be proud of things sometimes. Its like supporting your favorite cricket team if you get what I mean.

    Edit* I have no opinion I have to get married by Dec I'll be married!!! am in a freakish way looking forward to it.
    You can believe in a creator without being affiliated with a strict form of religion.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    You can believe in a creator without being affiliated with a strict form of religion.
    I know what, but then I'd rather just invent my own religion. To the worship of my god.

  10. #190
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    So what is your stand today? proper believing muslim? disbeliever who is using religion to control others and gain materials things? ex muslim? sufi?

    Which aspect of your personality are we dealing with today?
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

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