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  1. #151
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    I hate money.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Why do you think you would be drinking more having left islam when you actually already drink loads?

    Anyway, I know good muslims, who remain muslims, they saw all that was bad within their religion and vowed to only take what was good. Yet you are grasping for that which is more self serving, and what you can USE to control others, namely your wife. (good luck fully controlling an esfp )
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  3. #153
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I hate money.

    No, you just say you do, you go on about how you could live humble, yet bling and pimp out yourself, and pose with wads of cash.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    No, you just say you do, you go on about how you could live humble, yet bling and pimp out yourself, and pose with wads of cash.
    Its the money which is making me lazy and corrupting me. And whats worse its not even my money, its my dads money. I just which he stopped giving me money so easily. If I say to him dad lend me a 10er he will give me a 50 pound note. His just crazy he don't understand... He was always poor his father and mother never had money. So he doesn't want to feel like that. The money is even messing my baby sisters life up. She's too dependent on it. She's gone to Pakistan with my older sister. Any everyday the phones ringing telling dad to send more money. And my mom doesn't even care, I can see it in her face, he had high hopes for me. But I can see the sadness in her eyes, she's gave up on me. I honestly need to get the hell out of this country for at least a year and get married and live in Punjab. That was the only place I was happy away from women, money and licker. People actually respected me.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    Why do you think you would be drinking more having left islam when you actually already drink loads?

    Anyway, I know good muslims, who remain muslims, they saw all that was bad within their religion and vowed to only take what was good. Yet you are grasping for that which is more self serving, and what you can USE to control others, namely your wife. (good luck fully controlling an esfp )
    Yes. But if I left Islam I would be drinking more. Islam is the only thing that can save me, its the only thing because its like a hobby. In fact even though I might not believe in a god, when I come out of the mosque I don't even feel like looking at girls in that way. I don't even feel like drinking. Because I feel clean and proud of myself.

    Well she is an esfp, but she makes me feel happy. She actually asks me how am feeling, she wants me to talk to her etc. But I might end up breaking her if I don't fix my act.

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    But I might end up breaking her if I don't fix my act.
    Don't "break" a good woman. It is a horrible thing to do, and leaves you feeling more horrible (Trust me. I know).

    I'm sure you can find the discipline. In fact, that is one of the MBTI sterotypes for your type (For what its worth).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #157
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Sona, you need to get some help. You sound incredibly depressed. Don't seek help from Muslims (or anyone else who's likely to try to persuade you religiously), either. I'd suggest something like Al-Anon.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #158
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Not to defend Sona, but this is plenty common in all religions. Christians that stay in the church for community, etc. We all do it to some degree - none of us act in perfect accordance with our own morality.
    ?!

    I don't see it as the same at all.

    What you describe are actions made with honorable intent and an attempt to contribute back to the community. One does not have to share the beliefs completely, in order to still be a valuable and contributing member of the group.

    Sona is describing something very different: Purposeful exploitation of other people who are actually trying to attempt to follow the community standards, with the sole purpose of controlling them and winning as much for himself as possible. There is no "community" -- it's all about him.

    This is typical Type A aggressive American capitalism-style corporate behavior, popularized in the 80's.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #159
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sona is describing something very different: Purposeful exploitation of other people who are actually trying to attempt to follow the community standards, with the sole purpose of controlling them and winning as much for himself as possible. There is no "community" -- it's all about him.
    I wouldn't agree. I don't think that what Sona is doing is right, but I don't see a big difference. Both are exploiting a community group based upon shared values when you don't share the beliefs. He does share the same cultural values, it's just that they favor him.

    Just because Sona has a more direct benefit doesn't change the nature of what he is doing. It's his actions after he gets married that will be good or bad, regardless of his motivation for it.

    This is typical Type A aggressive American capitalism-style corporate behavior, popularized in the 80's.
    He's clearly "type a" with some stability problems, but I don't see how that changes the underlying morality of what is being done. He'd be type a if he believed or not; he'd treat his wife the same way (... from what I understand, possibly worse) if he believed. He is still acting within cultural norms without the religious beliefs - he simply doesn't believe. Why does belief change the morality of that?

    It works both ways - if you feel he is justified in acting the way he does just because he believes in something, then I could see an argument that believing makes a difference. I don't see that. I think how he acts, belief or not, is his choice. We all use our society - it's not like men ask for wage parity with women for example, or race, or anything else. We do use the advantages we are given without remorse. And that's what he's doing - that's what nearly all men in his religion do. The only question is if belief would "moralise" his actions... that is if the religion makes that moral while the cultural following makes it immoral.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    He's clearly "type a" with some stability problems, but I don't see how that changes the underlying morality of what is being done. He'd be type a if he believed or not; he'd treat his wife the same way (... from what I understand, possibly worse) if he believed. He is still acting within cultural norms without the religious beliefs - he simply doesn't believe. Why does belief change the morality of that?

    It works both ways - if you feel he is justified in acting the way he does just because he believes in something, then I could see an argument that believing makes a difference. I don't see that. I think how he acts, belief or not, is his choice. We all use our society - it's not like men ask for wage parity with women for example, or race, or anything else. We do use the advantages we are given without remorse. And that's what he's doing - that's what nearly all men in his religion do. The only question is if belief would "moralise" his actions... that is if the religion makes that moral while the cultural following makes it immoral.

    This really resonates with me, but in my value system I view a disbeliever fully aware of using a system/religion to fufill and sate his needs being fully aware that the system hurts others, yet happily using it to his own desire as worse than the person who genuinely believes it's because a god exists that said behave this way.

    I liken it to premeditated murder or manslaughter, not in the exact same way, but just in their degrees between each other. Cold and calculated vs foolish/anger.

    Am I making sense as this is one of the those things I can't convey all that well in words?
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

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