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Thread: how come?

  1. #11
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Sounds like Ne to me.
    well should it not be a Ni thing?
    (1)Ni are the ones who are good at connecting the dots right? would they not get rather annoyed when they are unable to do so?
    i am basing this particular question on - connecting the dots.

    (2)theoretically Ni s need more proof to come up with an answer than Ne s isn't it?
    if Ni s need more proof than Ne s i think i answered my own question. since they need more proof they would not mind how they get it.
    or is it that Te need more proof than Ti s?

    i am confused when it comes to the simple definitions btw Ni Ne Ti Te.

  2. #12
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    here is my idea, its different from costrins

    NiTe:
    te defines virtual dots. ni sees how such dots fit into a given picture. thus ni can only connect dots, that actually occur in perceived (fantasied, remembered) reality. so if Ni connects dots, its right on to reality, except when the Te definitions of the dots have been very misleading. so Ni will not understand anything for a long time. it needs to collect observations, to pump up his associations and grow his arsenal of Te pieces. also just because you discover connections of the intuitive kind, doesn't mean you understand them right away. Te is needed for that. Ni can not work very well with systems that have no representation at all in kausal reality.

    TiNe:
    Ne defines perceived/objective dots, they are connected by Ti in an arbitary and willfull way. Ti can always connect those dots in ways that may have no resemblance in reality (like math, totally self-centered). an entp might argue that Ni people can not connect dots at all. he would not understand how Ni connects dots. he might argue that Ni people are suggestible to teachings that connect the dots for them (i got this from the socionics.com dude). this is very ill understanding. teachings are valued by Ni for their tidbits of Te. these are inspiring new patterns.

  3. #13
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    My best developed function is Ni, followed by Ne. I do this talking logic-thing a lot. Whether it's Ne or Ni, I have no idea, but I can definitely identify with your experiences, Ravana. I tend to think verbally, sometimes even when I am alone, which is rather creepy. But that's generally if I am really pondering something hard.

    "Let's see... Hmm. <rambling that makes perfect sense>"

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #14
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    here is my idea, its different from costrins

    NiTe:
    te defines virtual dots. ni sees how such dots fit into a given picture. thus ni can only connect dots, that actually occur in perceived reality. so if Ni connects dots, its right on to reality, except when the Te definitions of the dots have been very misleading. so Ni will not understand anything for a long time. it needs to collect observations, to pump up his associations. Ni can not work very well with systems that have no representation in kausal reality.

    so Te is the one which needs more dots? that must be the reason Te uses are a bit more tight on the facts.
    TiNe:
    Ne defines perceived/objective dots, they are connected by Ti in an arbitary and willfull way. Ti can always connect those dots in ways that may have no resemblance in reality (like math, totally selfcentered).
    according to your definition of Ti and Ne,i love Ne and Ti. lol
    you mean to say if a Ne user wants something he uses Ti consciously and connect out-of-the-blue information gathered by Ne to prove it?


    according to you-

    Ni - conscious?
    Ne- unconscious?

    Ti - conscious?
    Te - unconscious?

    therefor? -

    ENTj -
    Te-unconsciously / less-consciously desires for more and more information.
    Ni- consciously connects the dots

    ENTp -
    Ne- see things everywhere unconsciously
    Ti - connects the dots the way it wants to.

  5. #15
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i don't get the unconscious thing. i don't know what's conscious to extroverted people, if anything. to me (NiFeSiTe, INFp) its all conscious (except, Te and Fe are exchangeable/do the same job, so one of them is apparently absent at a time).

  6. #16

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    Ne is analogical, that's all I know. It wanders between contexts to see the answers. Hence why we Ne dom types love analogies . If you place something in enough contexts and see it from enough perspectives, you develop an understanding of the system. Also why Ne doms go well in psychology, and in reading people and their environment. We find it pretty natural to change from our context to theirs.

    Ti from my knowledge is more logical. Builds structured arguments and principles.

    Ni from my knowledge is conceptually visualising the future or the outcome of things. They just know the answer and feel compelled to act on it. Almost psychic.

    Te is great. It simplifies, standardises, puts things in the form they should be in, it essentially seeks to make the system more logical, efficient and optimised.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #17
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    ni , in my mind, is just as analogical, but its more fixed on a single object*, as it follows the object(s) through its lifetime, its root in other objects, its birth and death.

    i dont like the whole future talk. ni is not time related, its movement related. imagine how a cross section image (eg brainscan) morphes as you change the location of the section. you can somewhat predict the next image, but that is not the most interesting aspect of Ni. the dot-connecting aspect (the guesswork) of Ni comes into play, if a single cross section image is (in deed subconsciously) compared to any number of matching processes that have previously retraced. several matches will pop up in consciousness and te will have to sort out. te will change distance, which causes new comparisons. i think Te translates patterns into the concrete, or stores its favorite patterns. holds them together and differentiates them.

    as a child i destroyed every toy to get to know the mechanical movements inside. i am a reverse engineer, not so much an inventor.

    but there are also typical Ni inventions. its those inventions that emulate the ways of nature.

    i take "windows" apart, and can "predict" how software is going to work. this is like theory of mind, except its theory of GUI

    so its not time related, in a metaphysical way.

    in fact its rather hard for me to precisely imagine how the expansion of space and its acceleration work (i talk about astronomy), because i will confuse space and time. i can understand both, but hardly at the same time.

    maybe you know the guy who invented those animals out of wood bars that move in the wind on the beach. i like to think that this is Ni animating little peaces of Te. (may be wishfull thinking)


    Ne is movement related as well, but i figure, it has a subconscious way of separating different processes and from that confident separation it can retrace how the different branches/threads are going to hit upon each other. this is how Ne is aware of potential.

    Ni will isolate a bunch of threads (Ne would think they are unrelated objects*) to study its common Will, Aim, intention, it will merge as much as possible of them, look for the cosmic themes, but cant possibly merge all of causality, so it will be ignorant about some phenomenon. it tends to be very fatalistic.
    "this particular movement can not break out of its own habbit. it needs to be hit upon by an unknown unforeseeable alien process."

    (write that on my grave)

  8. #18
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Well, Ne and Ni are essentially the same thing, just applied to different areas. Ne externally, Ni internally. But this has some interesting effects.

    Ni takes ideas in the external world, and compares it to other assimilated ideas. It sees the hidden connections between different ideas, how they flow together. Leads to "mystic insights", and "knowing" how the future will play out.

    Ne takes ideas in the external world, and follows the tangents off of that. It doesn't store ideas, it follows a linear path. It sees possibilities, conceives of new ideas entirely.


    So both take ideas from the external world, so both can do this, although in different ways, and Ne is more prone to it, especially the talking part.

    Ni will take in a new idea, and integrate it into the system, then form connections with with other ideas, however, it doesn't create new ideas entirely. It creates new perspectives, new ways of considering the ideas you already have. When you get a solution from Ni, you tend to drift away into your thoughts, then come out just "knowing" the answer (but not necessarily how you got it).

    Ne will take in a new idea, and will expand on it. It will create new ideas entirely from that first idea, and then follow the tangents from that idea, and the new ideas from that, etc ad infinitum. Its brainstorming and speaking your thoughts. When you get a solution from Ne, you shout "Aha! And then quickly divulge the answer you got."

    imo
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  9. #19
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    My best developed function is Ni, followed by Ne. I do this talking logic-thing a lot. Whether it's Ne or Ni, I have no idea, but I can definitely identify with your experiences, Ravana. I tend to think verbally, sometimes even when I am alone, which is rather creepy. But that's generally if I am really pondering something hard.

    "Let's see... Hmm. <rambling that makes perfect sense>"
    you think this is creepy?

    when i am alone i actually act things out.

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