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View Poll Results: Is the word "retarded" offensive?

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  • Yes, every time it's used, no matter the circumstance.

    10 11.11%
  • Only when used to refer to a mentally handicapped person (see OP).

    44 48.89%
  • No it's never offensive (I'm insensitive).

    36 40.00%
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  1. #41
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    the meaning we have assigned to phonetics are arbitrary and even vary widely within our species considering different languages, which is why, ironically, i find more offensive assumptions in projecting vitriolic connotation than seeming to make it.

  2. #42
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    the meaning we have assigned to phonetics are arbitrary and even vary widely within our species considering different languages, which is why, ironically, i find more offensive assumptions in projecting vitriolic connotation than seeming to make it.
    This is very vague, and has little relevance to a discussion on the use of a word that one knows to be offensive.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  3. #43
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    about the N thing you might be right, I think the same, we have much more sources of information today. Such things help the N to develop while back then you were much more in a 'now and here' world.
    There's also a correlation between N and IQ, the IQ was lower back then (less sources of intellectual stimulation and so on).
    I realise iq is a base 100 standardized thing and that it's culturaly relative, so I'm talking about the 'technical part' of the iq tests (puzzles etc.)
    So actually there were no fewer Ns just less had the chance to "develop" (whatever that means), they still existed they just weren't as awesometastic and valuable as they are today. If type is innate then there should be similar proportions throughout history.

    ...and on using retard as an insult, when you use someone's condition as something negative (something to feel bad about) I can't see how that couldn't be insulting to that person.

    Implied in "You're a retard..." is "...and you should feel bad about that because to be retarded is a horrible and shameful thing to be".

  4. #44
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    So actually there were no fewer Ns just less had the chance to "develop" (whatever that means), they still existed they just weren't as awesometastic and valuable as they are today. If type is innate then there should be similar proportions throughout history.
    that was implied. There's both a genetic and a social correlation to types, I just said that the 'social' part had a bigger tendency to lean on the S side than today.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  5. #45
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    that was implied. There's both a genetic and a social correlation to types, I just said that the 'social' part had a bigger tendency to lean on the S side than today.
    The original statement was;

    I don't think there were as much Ns back then.
    Just because society want's you to be an S doesn't mean you are one.

    Ns might have behaved more like Sensors back then but they would still have been Ns.

  6. #46
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    You can have the genes to be a great whatever, doesn't mean you'll become one. Genes are more statistical than absolute determinism of the phenotype. So the more complex the structures becomes the more chances there are to be differences. And external\social influence is what influences the brain towards one prefered set of pathways rather than another.

    You have an 'identity' ideal of the types. Types are not absolutes, if you keep relating to S values rather than N, u'll be an S and not some kind of 'should be an N type'.
    The brain is like a very complex muscle, structures build upon use.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #47
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    This is very vague, and has little relevance to a discussion on the use of a word that one knows to be offensive.
    it is not irrelevant because you've chosen a specific word as the subject... we could look at retard, racial slurs, or vocabulary for any sort of "offensive" preconception. my point is this: preconceptions are a normal and even necessary part of how we think, and inaccurate or impossible preconceptions happen all the time... it is not the existence of these that is harmful, but the belief that these attributes could somehow make someone's life more or less valuable.

    to put it simply, i see nothing wrong with calling someone a retard in reference to stupid behavior. i think most people can understand the correlation because retarded people are generally less intelligent (by definition?) and more prone to stupid behavior. what i have a problem with is the suggestion that being stupid makes you less valuable as a human, and the one person who adopts that attitude for certain is the one who finds calling someone else "retarded" to be offensive... it is more offensive to consider retard an insult than to call someone a retard.

  8. #48
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    it is more offensive to consider retard an insult than to call someone a retard.
    So if a mildly autistic person is offended because I've said retard (assuming I don't know the word is offensive to some), then the mildly autistic person is in the wrong?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  9. #49
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    It's kind of a split
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #50
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    So if a mildly autistic person is offended because I've said retard (assuming I don't know the word is offensive to some), then the mildly autistic person is in the wrong?
    they would be incorrect to allow perpetuation of such an attitude affect their self-image to the point that they become defensive. i wouldnt consider their reaction offensive because it is probably the result of so many other people holding the attitude in discussion, whereas they are simply the victim, not necessarily a participant.

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