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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    i would immediately tell you that as long as your intentions are good there is nothing wrong with it. admittedly sometimes ill be a little manipulative as long as it helps people out.
    Au contraire, mon frere.

    Hitler had good intentions. European settlers taking land from Indians... For progress, of course. What an individual finds beneficial and 'right', could be a nightmare for another. The most inhumane occurrences in history, were carried out with "good" intentions. Those forces were merely helping themselves and the perceived greater good of their people. Nevertheless, there are those that agree neither aforementioned situation was negative. So, who decides good and bad? It's subjective.

  2. #32
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    To what end, Evan? I think it matters.

    Manipulating a criminal to stop killing people isn't the same as manipulating a child to have sex with you.

  3. #33
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    To what end, Evan? I think it matters.

    Manipulating a criminal to stop killing people isn't the same as manipulating a child to have sex with you.
    I agree.

    I just want to get a good working definition.

  4. #34
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Fe users! I throw up my hands and shake my head.

    You're having moral qualms now about directly needing other people's feeling for your feeling?

  5. #35
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Fe users! I throw up my hands and shake my head.

    You're having moral qualms now about directly needing other people's feeling for your feeling?
    Who is that directed to and what do you mean?

  6. #36
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I agree.

    I just want to get a good working definition.
    We have another thread on this, I think.

    I think of manipulation as getting people to do something by rearranging their beliefs or thinking without them knowing. If you do it with their knowing, it's just rational argument. I guess the line is more vague than I thought.

    What do you think about that definition?

  7. #37
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    We have another thread on this, I think.

    I think of manipulation as getting people to do something by rearranging their beliefs or thinking without them knowing. If you do it with their knowing, it's just rational argument. I guess the line is more vague than I thought.

    What do you think about that definition?
    If you don't mean to rearrange their beliefs, does it still count as manipulation? Or if you subconsciously mean to but aren't consciously aware?

  8. #38
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    If you don't mean to rearrange their beliefs, does it still count as manipulation? Or if you subconsciously mean to but aren't consciously aware?
    LOL, then you're manipulating yourself.



    (I would say no, but we're only talking arbitrary definitions here.)

  9. #39
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    LOL, then you're manipulating yourself.



    (I would say no, but we're only talking arbitrary definitions here.)
    In that case, isn't there no way to tell whether or not someone is being manipulative?

    (I've been called incredibly manipulative by lots of people -- I almost never do it consciously, I just have this tendency to get my way when I really want to. So maybe I'm not technically manipulative? My subconscious is, though...)

  10. #40
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    How about this simple definition -
    Actively trying to get someone to do what you want.

    This definition makes no distinction between methods. It could be by force (holding a gun to their head), baiting, rational debate that changes their values, suggestions, even just flat out asking them to do something.

    The key word though, is actively. If you just happen to get your way, even if you didn't do anything special, then that isn't manipulation. People just like you. :P

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