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  1. #21
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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    Manipulation is interesting.

  2. #22
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Okay so this was somewhat inspired by the graveyard thread but I've been thinking about it for years anyway...

    What's wrong with manipulating people?

    I could make a case, but I'd like people to answer so that I can respond.
    From my perspective it destroys trust. It is a way of creating a power imbalance. It also creates a complete mess in communication. The person has established that they present on different terms than what is true to their intentions. I prefer to interact with others at eye-level. If they are manipulating me, then I feel like it takes more energy to analyze what they are saying or trying to do, and for people in my inner circle it just isn't worth it to me. If I were to manipulate other people, it would also destroy a sense of intimacy and respect because it would place them lower than me. When I connect to someone in that inner circle, it is based on a deep trust which means you can trust each other with whatever you actually mean and intend. That will become apparent sooner or later, so why not sooner and just be done with it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    People resent being manipulated because it makes them feel like objects or pawns instead of human beings. That being said, there are degrees of manipulation, and some manipulation can become necessary to get things done. For instance, convincing an egomaniac that your idea was really their idea, if they are the person in charge and it's for the greater good.
    Yes.

    I joke around, but there are very few instances I'd actually do it. The one above is a great example.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    From my perspective it destroys trust. It is a way of creating a power imbalance. It also creates a complete mess in communication. The person has established that they present on different terms than what is true to their intentions. I prefer to interact with others at eye-level. If they are manipulating me, then I feel like it takes more energy to analyze what they are saying or trying to do, and for people in my inner circle it just isn't worth it to me. If I were to manipulate other people, it would also destroy a sense of intimacy and respect because it would place them lower than me. When I connect to someone in that inner circle, it is based on a deep trust which means you can trust each other with whatever you actually mean and intend. That will become apparent sooner or later, so why not sooner and just be done with it.
    This is true for me too. I've got a keen BS meter and if I think I'm being played I might go along with it. Then it just becomes a matter of who's zoomin' who and hardly worth the effort.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #25
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well... because people get mad at you if they find out you did it, and there's always a chance they could find out. Plus, if anything bad happens to them because of your manipulating them, it's your fault. Isn't that reason enough?

  6. #26
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    What's wrong with manipulating people?
    I guess it comes down to sincerity. It disgusts me to see people trying to control others, especially indirectly (though it's the smartest way to go). When I can spot it I stay as away of the person I possibly can and will not go along witht the persons "act": e.g. acting all kiss-ass and nice. Some have thought I'm acting irrationally and unnecessarily cold towards someone they find nice. I guess it's, I have no interest in interaction that's not honest and real.

    Every person manipulates each other to some extent. Most of the time I spot it I ignore it, because it's harmless (e.g. it happens in certain things but the interaction as a whole is based on trust and sincerity).

    The best manipulation is so indirect, the person who blames the manipulator finally gets the blame, getting accused by the manipulator I find it kinda hilarious

  7. #27
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    The only times I 'manipulate', if you want to call it that, is when I feel the need to restore harmony to a group, or to a person. When I notice the groupdynamic isn't working because of lack of communication, I'll talk to the parties involved and try and get them talking again. Also, when I notice a person isn't willing to deal with whatever bugs them and puts on a brave face, I'll talk to them in person and try and 'sneak in the back door', if you will, steering the conversation towards what they're unwilling to deal with or to get more information on what it is that bugs them without touching upon it, yet. Asking them straight out, results usually in an 'I'm fine', or an 'I dunno what you're talking about', so I find this way more effective. Sometimes, I get the same reply while using the indirect route, and I do respect that then.

    I'll also use the 'fishing for information'-tactic, if I for instance need to plan a birthday party or figure out a present for someone. As I'm known to ask the weirdest things, people don't get suspicious.

    I've been told that I manipulate when I'm nice to people and smile, but that's just who I am. I've tried to alter that several times, and I've just given up. I don't consider it manipulating when I'm unaware of it and it costs me too much energy to constantly keep it in check.

    With people who know me I'll occasionally do a silly manipulation to get something small or stupid (like a drink or something) where they can clearly see what I'm doing (coz they know me so well and I'm doing it over the top), which usually results in laughing and teasing, so fun for all

    You can use manipulation for your own gain without regard for others, but I'd never do that as harming none is one of my core beliefs. It can also be used to enhance the public wellbeing, and I'd rather use it for that than not use it at all. That would be just wasting a good tool. Yes, it can backfire, as it can unwillingly create a trust-issue between you and the person you're gently nudging, and I do watch out for that. If they notice, I explain why I did it and usually they know me well enough to understand. Most of the time, I just use that tool to be considerate of others though and maintain a good connection. Register what they like, how they react to certain things and who they are, what values they adhere and keep that in mind while talking to them. It makes communication a lot easier.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  8. #28
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Being upfront about your goals means good people can join you. Manipulation and deceit mean only you know what's going on. (Unless you're being played by a faster study.)

    And if you travel with truth, not only will good people join you, but when you're angry about something, it's real and you may take action. You are able to be a touchstone in the sea of bullshit most people surround themselves with.

    In short, you get the moral high ground and liars get rich, laid, happy and famous. It's so cool.

  9. #29
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    i would immediately tell you that as long as your intentions are good there is nothing wrong with it. admittedly sometimes ill be a little manipulative as long as it helps people out. but, i believe that if you manipulate for the good of another then they aren't learning their lesson or coming to whatever terms you are helping them to under their own power but with your help and thus it isn't a natural progression. i like people to come to terms with things under their own power and not with my help. they learn better that way. even if they are unaware of my hand in it but i helped, it doesn't hit them nearly like it would if they got there own their own. idk if this makes sense
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  10. #30
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    See here's the thing...I wonder about what constitutes manipulation.

    If you have some sequence of actions (x) which lead to another person taking some other sequence of actions (y), there are a few possible scenarios. You did x just because you felt like it with no thought of the effect on the other person (not manipulation). Or you did x because you subconsciously wanted effect y from the other person (is this manipulation??). Or you consciously did x to make the person do y (manipulation). But even in the conscious case, it wouldn't be considered manipulation all the time. Consider language. Consider trade.

    So maybe action y has to have a significant cost for it to be considered manipulation. And maybe action x has to be conscious. But even then, should we hold the person who took action sequence x responsible for someone else's actions? It seems to me if they're both adults, each should be responsible for themselves.

    Now, this says nothing of social consequences. I know when someone tries to manipulate me, it sometimes annoys me. But I would never think "oh man, they MADE me take action sequence y. It's their fault!" If I said that, I would essentially be thinking of myself as lesser than the other. Like a child to an adult.

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