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  1. #11
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Not getting into specifics, but none of your positions would seem especially radical to one of us (USA citizens..), except for the disbelief in democracy one, but there are certainly some people with your opinion on that too.

    I don't agree with everything you've said, but most of it isn't an uncommon opinion here.....
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  2. #12
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Something tells me that US members on the forum generally don't consider themselfs as average. But they know how people think. If I am wrong about this you are free correct me.

    So the question is how an average American would look at me from political and social perspective.
    Well, I'm clearly not the best person to answer, since I am in-fact above average in all the ways that count. Kidding! I think I need a smiley for "just kidding!" so I don't have to type it out each time.

    From my limited observation you strike me as someone who might excel at large scale logistics. I'm talking something like running a large company with military precision. Does that sound like something you could see yourself doing?

  3. #13
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's not that the average American will have a skewed view of you, but that you have a skewed view of the average American.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Well I said that you can correct me if needed.
    Then how would you describe average American. My point was never that everybody will stand united against me. Just that some people could find my positions strange.




    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Well, I'm clearly not the best person to answer, since I am in-fact above average in all the ways that count. Kidding! I think I need a smiley for "just kidding!" so I don't have to type it out each time.

    From my limited observation you strike me as someone who might excel at large scale logistics. I'm talking something like running a large company with military precision. Does that sound like something you could see yourself doing?

    In short : If I am good for something I am good for that kinds of things.

    I was thinking about creating a thread about this kinds of things. Probably I should create it. Since it could prove as interesting thread.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Then how would you describe average American. My point was never that everybody will stand united against me. Just that some people could find my positions strange.
    It's more that your frame of reference is European, where culture is more defined by borders. There is often more coherence on what a person is like. I believe I remember you being from Kosovo, but I just had this conversation with a Polish guy and it was one of the major culture shocks. He had a hard time understanding how diverse Vancouver (Canada) was, and that the diversity was effectively our local culture.

    There is no such thing as an average american. The country is 900 times the size of yours... and 150 times the number of people. It's hard to say that French-Liberal is going to agree with Polish Conservative on abortion... and it's going to be hard to say that Northern European is going to agree with Middle-Eastern views on women's rights. How do you average that?

  5. #15
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's more that your frame of reference is European, where culture is more defined by borders. There is often more coherence on what a person is like. I believe I remember you being from Kosovo, but I just had this conversation with a Polish guy and it was one of the major culture shocks. He had a hard time understanding how diverse Vancouver (Canada) was, and that the diversity was effectively our local culture.

    There is no such thing as an average american. The country is 900 times the size of yours... and 150 times the number of people. It's hard to say that French-Liberal is going to agree with Polish Conservative on abortion... and it's going to be hard to say that Northern European is going to agree with Middle-Eastern views on women's rights. How do you average that?
    That is why I said that I am generalizing. Everyone could have answered to specific to their part of US and everything would be fine.
    People took this too seriously. If this thread was that much serious it would have been created in political section. I guess that cultural differences did their thing in this thread.


    Also I presume that you don't actually think I am from Kosovo. However I can see you point.

  6. #16
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure most of these ideas would be complete whacko for the average European, from what I know.
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  7. #17
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's more that your frame of reference is European, where culture is more defined by borders. There is often more coherence on what a person is like. I believe I remember you being from Kosovo, but I just had this conversation with a Polish guy and it was one of the major culture shocks. He had a hard time understanding how diverse Vancouver (Canada) was, and that the diversity was effectively our local culture.
    "Diversity" is not unknown in Europe, it just depends where. I am pretty sure, for instance, that the inhabitants of Paris are far more diverse in origin than in Vancouver (I've been in Vancouver several times).
    Just look to the kind of Frenchmen you have here: one is in fact polish (Eck), the other is celto-dutch-italian-ashkenazic (myself)! But both are culturally French (maybe it's the ENTPness, who knows?).
    If I look at the family names of the neighbours that live in the same building as I, well, on the ground floor, you have a gay Arab couple. On 1st, you have me and a Malian family. On second, you have a Turkish family and a Lebanese one. On third, a French and a Italian one. On fourth, a Vietnamese and a Congolese. On fifth, a French and a Cantonese. On sixth, a Jewish and a Tamil. And we all live together rather peacefully.

    And I think my building is quite typical. Colorful, but typical.

    In France as well as in most continental European countries, the governments try to prevent any form of "clannishness" between communities. This explains why we have such a diverse neighbourhood, unlike what you may see in Anglo-Saxon countries where each ethnicity or culture tend to be separated from the other.

    Have you ever seen the documentary called "Amsterdam Global Village"?


    There is no such thing as an average american. The country is 900 times the size of yours... and 150 times the number of people. It's hard to say that French-Liberal is going to agree with Polish Conservative on abortion... and it's going to be hard to say that Northern European is going to agree with Middle-Eastern views on women's rights. How do you average that?
    I consider my "country" to be Europe. Antisocial One is Croat. But when I check his list, I think we're pretty close, politically speaking.

    Thus I think that Europe is slowly becoming an united cultural entity (with the exception of England and Russia), even if it's quite difficult to understand for most US citizens.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Also I presume that you don't actually think I am from Kosovo. However I can see you point.
    Huh? I just wasn't sure if I remembered correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    "Diversity" is not unknown in Europe, it just depends where.
    So it's diverse even in diversity... Which is why I say generalizing isn't easy.

    I am pretty sure, for instance, that the inhabitants of Paris are far more diverse in origin than in Vancouver (I've been in Vancouver several times).
    I don't care to measure epeen diversity and I'm sure you can be proud of Paris diversity: the point was that the culture is not homogenous. If it isn't even inside a city, how can you generalize a large country with dozens of larger cities spread out over a massive area?

  9. #19
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I don't care to measure epeen diversity and I'm sure you can be proud of Paris diversity: the point was that the culture is not homogenous. If it isn't even inside a city, how can you generalize a large country with dozens of larger cities spread out over a massive area?
    No, you didn't understand my point either.

    In Europe, despite the ethnic diversity, culture tends to be homogenuous, it's a global trend. While in Anglo-Saxon countries like yours, it's the opposite trend.

    You know, all the people that live in my building share the same schools, the same bars, the same restaurants, the same socializing space. There are differences of course, but the common ground we share tends to be stronger with each new year, even in values. Our goverments focus primarily on integration.
    In your country as well as in the US, communities are separated according to "race" or religion. They do not live in the same districts, they do not share the same schools, the same jobs. Your society doesn't look at economical or political inequalities the same way we do, the solutions are not the same.

    Of course, I understand why one can only be against generalization. But again, "diversity" means something very different here than in your country.

    I'm not saying a political model is better than the other (especially because they're never perfect), I'd say they are both different, far more than most Americans (and that includes Anglo-canadians) would dare to imagine.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    No, you didn't understand my point either.

    In your country as well as in the US, communities are separated according to "race" or religion. They do not live in the same districts, they do not share the same schools, the same jobs. Your society doesn't look at economical or political inequalities the same way we do, the solutions are not the same.
    The irony of this is that the conversation with my Polish guy was the exactly the opposite of yours. He was complaining about intergration, and didn't understand how we could integrate so many cultures together... while you are telling me we don't integrate as much and have pseudo-segregation.

    *shrug* You can call Europe more homogeneous and call it more diversified. I don't see it, but then you don't see it here either. So, no, I don't get your point. You say you have diversity, and yet it is all much more similar that you can generalize all across Europe. That's not something I have heard from expats here. But then again, they consider France rather unique in Europe... from a labor point of view, especially. Heh, I'd consider the French side of my family very different than my Danish and Ukrainian side, as well.

    I don't see it, sorry.

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