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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post

    What we were trying to say, however, is that women aren't like robots, and they have the same desires and wants that you do, whether they express them or not. Try to imagine yourself as the woman. Would you enjoy being treated the way you propose to treat the women you imagine?
    Of course not, but if it was my duty then I would. Not that I would enjoy it I'd still do it though. I'd do it anyway if my wife was very assertive.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I'll tell you, she would feel normal. If you haven't experience crack you can't have a perspective of it. When a baby is in a mothers womb, it doesn't know anything about the outside world. So it can't have a perspective of it - it feels content. Same thing with a woman who has never experienced "freedom" and what use is freedom to a woman is shes going to be all alone?
    Wrong, the human will always comes through some how, not all born slaves desired to remain slaves, and not all born slaves desired to be free. Some people are more able to fulfill a slave role than others, and the human being has a mind.

    The concubine sees other people come and go as they please, will find her mind wondering why she too is not free to come an go.

    I don't see it as negative. If a woman is content bowing to a man, there is no problem there.
    You are assuming your wife will want to do that, I wonder what she will be like once you really get to know her.

    What if you find she has a stronger spirit than you first assumed? what if as she grows (considering she is young) she finds herself not happy in the slave role?

    Yeah I did go over the top and embellished the truth a little.
    Indeed.


    I don't get anything spiritual from anything really. I go for things I can touch, eat, have sex with, spend, sell, buy, trade. Rest is just bullshit really.
    Ignorance is bliss?


    I eat, sleep and shit. Like everyone else. What more is there suppose to be - what do people expect me to do pull rabbits out of my ass or something?
    That would be amusing if you could, but way to go on the diversion tactics.



    Well I've decided to quit drink, and be more consistent with that my faith demands. I've also decided to stop fornication and not to look at a woman am not married to or is not related to me, a seccond time.
    Good luck this time round, hopefully the willpower will kick in this time.

    It gives me an identity, order, structure and what to expect.
    I guess this is where our types differ then, those things are not that important to me, at least not important enough to lie to myself in order to have them.

    I can get an identity of my own, I can create my own order and structure, and then what I get to expect is the fruits of my stand.


    Fallacy of an Appeal to Consequences of a Belief.
    Missing the point by using a smokescreen.

    I don't know, you just say the most abstract things. I don't know what it is "what you could be" or looking "deeper" just give me something solid.
    It's ok I get it, you are limited to your physical senses and not much beyond.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Okay, got it. It seems like the real issue and motivation for you isn't pleasure, but duty. You feel compelled to do your duty, and expect others to do their duty. The reason you want a wife to do things for you, is because you feel that it would be her duty, correct? Your ideal, then, isn't your own pleasure, but everyone adhering to a certain set of laws and traditions, doing what ever is expected of them within those limits. All you have to do, then, is decide what traditions and laws you are loyal to, and obey them. The obedience is what will give you pleasure. You're a classic ISTJ.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Okay, got it. It seems like the real issue and motivation for you isn't pleasure, but duty. You feel compelled to do your duty, and expect others to do their duty. The reason you want a wife to do things for you, is because you feel that it would be her duty, correct? Your ideal, then, isn't your own pleasure, but everyone adhering to a certain set of laws and traditions, doing what ever is expected of them within those limits. All you have to do, then, is decide what traditions and laws you are loyal to, and obey them. The obedience is what will give you pleasure. You're a classic ISTJ.
    Yes, yes. You've hit the nail on the head. Everyone has a role, in the society, culture and religion they've been brought up into. I see it as being a traitor, for rejecting your duty and obligations. To me its like being in a war, I'd fight to the death for my side. I'd never run, and if there was others who run form my side I'd shoot them. I pretty much like the warrior tradition of my own culture, and of the tribal mentality of my cheema tribe. And I also love the traditional aspects of Islamic warrior mentality such as Jihad so, with my tribal traditions those surpass Islam by about 3,000 years. So Jihad sits well. My ancestors were headhunters i.e. Indo-Scythians. Jihad is one of the main reasons why my ancestors adopted Islam as their official faith rather then acnestroal worship and paganism.

  5. #35
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    Yes, yes. You've hit the nail on the head. Everyone has a role, in the society, culture and religion they've been brought up into. I see it as being a traitor, for rejecting your duty and obligations. To me its like being in a war, I'd fight to the death for my side. I'd never run, and if there was others who run form my side I'd shoot them. I pretty much like the warrior tradition of my own culture, and of the tribal mentality of my cheema tribe. And I also love the traditional aspects of Islamic warrior mentality such as Jihad so, with my tribal traditions those surpass Islam by about 3,000 years. So Jihad sits well. My ancestors were headhunters i.e. Indo-Scythians. Jihad is one of the main reasons why my ancestors adopted Islam as their official faith rather then ancestral worship and paganism.
    Well, I can at least respect that to a certain degree. So, I've got to ask you a question, then. If you are so positive that your religion and it's associated values hold all that is valuable to you, then why do you question it? That just seems strange to me.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, I can at least respect that to a certain degree. So, I've got to ask you a question, then. If you are so positive that your religion and it's associated values hold all that is valuable to you, then why do you question it? That just seems strange to me.
    Some do and others don't. It's pretty strict, you don't notice it until someones kinda like forcing it on you. I think mainly, what bothers me is, the last payer and the morning prayer. The last prayer is long, and the morning prayer is hard to wake up for. Other then that I don't mind it much.

  7. #37
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    Some do and others don't. It's pretty strict, you don't notice it until someones kinda like forcing it on you. I think mainly, what bothers me is, the last payer and the morning prayer. The last prayer is long, and the morning prayer is hard to wake up for. Other then that I don't mind it much.
    So what actually makes you feel good? That you've done the prayers and followed the guidelines? Or that the content of the prayer itself is something you could base your life and behavior on?

    Disciplined behavior can sometimes be boring, but I have to think that at the same time the content should be meaningful.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So what actually makes you feel good? That you've done the prayers and followed the guidelines? Or that the content of the prayer itself is something you could base your life and behavior on?

    Disciplined behavior can sometimes be boring, but I have to think that at the same time the content should be meaningful.
    I want to get them over and done with as soon as possible. I did used to enjoy them, when I believed in a god. It's just that I don't like people telling me to do things, unless if its a rather attractive woman. I just hate it, you can't force your opinion on others. Its just my friend, the more he talks the less I believe in a god, his an INFP, and I don't like his style of learning. He never asks for references, his just stupid I think.

    OK I'll give you an example:

    Me and him after prayer, decided to get some burgers we, were eating them and I left a bit and he told me I should eat that. And it was burnt chips am like they are burnt and guess what he says to me this is what he says to me "oh you shouldn't leave any food for the devil to eat, as soon as the devil touches this tray to eat the food it will have a soul and it will curse you, because when the devil touches the tray it feels pain." and I was just there sitting thinking, wow I can't even pretend to start telling myself thats true. It's illogical. And thats part of Islam, people actually believe that. And he expects things like that convince me Islam is the truth. Things like that put me off, which are totally illogical.

    If it was me, I would have said eat all your food, because some humans are starving and we shouldn't waste food. That would actually make more sense then that whole devil nonsense.

  9. #39
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Sona... I'd worry about what your friend was thinking... that's just... weird...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Sona... I'd worry about what your friend was thinking... that's just... weird...
    Most Muslims think like that. They think its normal to think things like this are possible.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and theres perfectly logical explanation maybe there is something we can't see.

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