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  1. #11
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I understand what you mean. It just seems to much to ditch your family over religious issues. When I can just stick with them for a few more months until am married and they'll want me to move out anyway. Then I can work on my wife to be either more religious or to ditch it. As I would prefer a pious Muslim wife.
    I would listen to Sahara - what she wrote is very accurate.

    You have to understand how these forces can rip you apart. Right now you are a mass of contradictions - trouble with religions, trouble with duty... but then, you want a religious wife, but you want to be free - how does that happen? Does your wife not have to obey your mother? If she is dutiful, you will be trapped, more, forever.

    The more you work within the contradictions you hold, the more they will escalate... worse and worse, binding you more and more.

    What you are looking for is security - security with a woman who will act in accordance to what you expect and know... Security with your family, with your religion. Stepping outside will be scary... but what you can't do is try for both. You must choose and accept the consequences from either embracing your religion, family and such... or you must step out and accept the risks and the fear that will come with it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    So, trouble in paradise... Why, oh why does it sound familiar...

    I'd rather leave childish behavior behind than end up behind bars. I've dumped friends too.
    They are they going to end up making me go to jail, same with my mom too, and sister in law. They thought someone was hiding in the house, so they call me I come rushing, and they tell me they've locked the door in the bedroom from the outside and they think he is locked inside. So I OK let me go check, my mom bloody passes me a massive kitchen knife. Am like what the hell mom, you want me to get sent down for murder.

    And my friends are even worse, just starting fights for no reason and then I have to get involved.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I would listen to Sahara - what she wrote is very accurate.

    You have to understand how these forces can rip you apart. Right now you are a mass of contradictions - trouble with religions, trouble with duty... but then, you want a religious wife, but you want to be free - how does that happen? Does your wife not have to obey your mother? If she is dutiful, you will be trapped, more, forever.

    The more you work within the contradictions you hold, the more they will escalate... worse and worse, binding you more and more.

    What you are looking for is security - security with a woman who will act in accordance to what you expect and know... Security with your family, with your religion. Stepping outside will be scary... but what you can't do is try for both. You must choose and accept the consequences from either embracing your religion, family and such... or you must step out and accept the risks and the fear that will come with it.
    I want a woman who not going to question me or argue with me - I will never be able to openly admit to my family I have no interest in religion anymore. I like structure, and order in my life... I know what to expect from a religious wife, she will be like a mother and a wife. I don't want a woman who going to be telling me maker her tea or her telling me to piss off if I ask her to do something for me. I want a wife who's going to be like a mother and a wife. Dress me in the morning etc.. etc..

  4. #14
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    They are they going to end up making me go to jail, same with my mom too, and sister in law. They thought someone was hiding in the house, so they call me I come rushing, and they tell me they've locked the door in the bedroom from the outside and they think he is locked inside. So I OK let me go check, my mom bloody passes me a massive kitchen knife. Am like what the hell mom, you want me to get sent down for murder.

    And my friends are even worse, just starting fights for no reason and then I have to get involved.
    ask your probation officer for options; if she can't give you any I guess you're euchred till you get out of there.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I want a woman who not going to question me or argue with me - I will never be able to openly admit to my family I have no interest in religion anymore. I like structure, and order in my life... I know what to expect from a religious wife, she will be like a mother and a wife. I don't want a woman who going to be telling me maker her tea or her telling me to piss off if I ask her to do something for me. I want a wife who's going to be like a mother and a wife. Dress me in the morning etc.. etc..
    So you want a servant, then? What's the problem then...? Stay in the culture, embrace the culture and religion. Serve it as your wife will serve you, serve your family as you would serve your religion. It's obvious what choice is best for you, driven by security or not - embrace the life and all it entails.

    But yes, you should be worried about the test results. If you decide on this path, it will get worse. You'll simply be bottling up and lashing out... your emotions will need to be dampened - it's time to see a doctor, especially if it's this bad now.

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Sona, I had no idea your life was this conflicted. I really thought you were just here to wreck the tranquility of our forum with vileness, but now I think I understand.

    Well, I think you are conflicted between your desire to look beyond what you've accepted as right, because a part of you is questioning it. This part wants to reject all that, and embrace a new worldview. The other part of you feels afraid of the unknown, and also has a sense of loyalty to what you've been taught. This part also embodies your sense of guilt at the other part's wanting to "betray" your family, religion, and all associated traditons.

    It's rather easy to see what's going on. You say that you "want" certain things, but do you really? Don't you think it's possible that you only think you want those things because you've told that that's what you should want in life, even though you don't realize it?

    With Si at the helm, I can see how you're confused. You probably associate your sense of self with these traditions, and have trouble rejecting them for that reason. What you have to realize is that they are only one way of looking at things. There are other people with other traditions that they value, and I think it will help if you find a new set of rules and traditions to embrace, although it will be hard to let go of the old ones. You have to try and really look at what you want, beyond tradition, rules, your self-image, security, or guilt, and that's going to be hard.

  7. #17
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    I read the earlier bits and could empathize a great deal. I'm not going to try and "track in" at that point, because Sahara shared some very good insights and I feel like it would just be convoluted for me to try to jump in there.

    I will just say that I understand about the "religious things" and when you said you did not know if you were "ready or not to ditch everything." It takes time to work through what you will base your life on, and you probably DON'T feel ready to change your whole life yet. However, you're also on a timeline (with your impending marriage?), and the rest of your life is imploding around you.

    You might have to make a decision and be proactive, if you want to emotionally, mentally, and physically survive.

    I know the ISTJ mindset and how hard it is for you to break a promise. I think you need to think about your inferior a moment -- your shadow, Ne -- and allow yourself to see the possibilities of what is happening, then use Fi (your tertiary function) to choose new values for yourself. What you are going through is what happens when ANYONE is stretched beyond themselves.

    Listen to Sahara. She is INFP -- an Fi+Ne woman. These are the two lesser functions you have all rights to use, as an ISTJ...! Your Si + Te is not working well for you right now, you have to be brave and try something different. Sahara can guide you. And she knows Islam. I would trust her experiences and ideas.

    I see the fluctuation in your posts from just a few days ago, and you really do look like someone who is reaching a breaking point. You are severely depressed as well... and regardless of refusing to commit suicide, you're still in a world of pain... and things will only get worse if you do not somehow change your life... and quickly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I want a woman who not going to question me or argue with me - I will never be able to openly admit to my family I have no interest in religion anymore. I like structure, and order in my life... I know what to expect from a religious wife, she will be like a mother and a wife. I don't want a woman who going to be telling me maker her tea or her telling me to piss off if I ask her to do something for me. I want a wife who's going to be like a mother and a wife. Dress me in the morning etc.. etc..
    Be honest with yourself (and I'm sorry, but I am going to be impersonal and very blunt here, because I think you can take it and need to hear it): These are not the words of a man, these are the words of a boy who wants women to mother him and make his life feel better, so that he doesn't have to make hard decisions.

    ISTJs seem to commonly get STUCK when they have to make large decisions like this. Their brains are telling them one thing, their past experiences and obligations are telling them something else, and commonly they either stay in the middle and make NO decision... or they try to find someone else to make the decision for them.

    What you describe is the EASY way out, the easy solution... and it is the very solution that is no solution at all and will damn you. It's time to grow up and make decisions about your life and take responsibility for what happens. You do not need a woman to save you and coddle you. You need to be the man you keep talking about being.

    I know it's not easy. Yes, I do know that, I am finding myself in similar situations... And... it doesn't matter. If you do not decide, you will lose your soul, either way.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    I want a woman who not going to question me or argue with me - I will never be able to openly admit to my family I have no interest in religion anymore. I like structure, and order in my life... I know what to expect from a religious wife, she will be like a mother and a wife. I don't want a woman who going to be telling me maker her tea or her telling me to piss off if I ask her to do something for me. I want a wife who's going to be like a mother and a wife. Dress me in the morning etc.. etc..
    Regards to the underlined part: Even within the traditional religious community, are the wives really like this in private with their husbands? Or is this just the ideal image they and their husbands present to the world?

    Men and women as mates is something older than governments and religions, it is the first unit of humans living together and raising children. Think on this, any controller in a society is going to do what they can to reduce a couple's interdependence and a very effective way of doing that is to make a man afraid of trusting his wife's counsel and guidence in their life together. No one else in the world has as much vested interest in your success as a person as your spouse that you live with and share resouces with. That's a powerful thing, two people working together for the good of each other. When they have each other in this positive way, they don't have as much need to lean on authoritarian religions and dogmas, instead they get their pyschological reassurance from each other. Think on that.

    For the record, I don't think I have ever told my husband to "piss off" when asked me to do something for him. I might have told him "not at this moment" or something like that, but I have never been disrespectful to him like you describe. Then again, he has never asked anything unreasonable and he doesn't order me around.

    If you want structure and order, in my opinion you need to first define very clearly what you mean when you say that and then find a wife who also values the same types of structure and order that you do and then you'll fit together better. But honestly, I think you don't know yourself well yet and need to spend a few years exploring living in some different situations to find yourself better before you consider marriage and certainly before you decide on parenthood.

    I think the pain you are feeling now is growing pains and that you are about to build up the courage to live more closely to your true inner self and that is something that never comes without pain and without censure from others. There is no way forward at this point except through the fire.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby
    So you want a servant, then?
    Every guy wants a wife who's like a slave, wife and mother. That doesn't mean that you don't love her or respect women. At the end of the day in my Punjabi culture, a woman is supposed to have sublime femininity, she has to play fun games with the husband. Only speak to him the most poetic and sweet words, feed him with her own hands now and dress him, put sirma in his eyes. Its part of the culture, and I want a wife like that.

    What's the problem then...? Stay in the culture, embrace the culture and religion. Serve it as your wife will serve you, serve your family as you would serve your religion. It's obvious what choice is best for you, driven by security or not - embrace the life and all it entails.
    Its not easy, when you don't believe in something from the heart but you do the pointless rituals. Once you have knowledge, you can't undo it and go back to ignorance. So, I can never tell my family or wife I don't believe in it really. She would leave me. Am not losing a wife like that who's going to treat me like a king over a religion. And not to mention, I want to have more then one wife simultaneously.

    But yes, you should be worried about the test results. If you decide on this path, it will get worse. You'll simply be bottling up and lashing out... your emotions will need to be dampened - it's time to see a doctor, especially if it's this bad now.
    Time will tell. Am not leaving until I've experienced my culture and religion to the fullest.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Sona, I had no idea your life was this conflicted. I really thought you were just here to wreck the tranquility of our forum with vileness, but now I think I understand.

    Well, I think you are conflicted between your desire to look beyond what you've accepted as right, because a part of you is questioning it. This part wants to reject all that, and embrace a new worldview. The other part of you feels afraid of the unknown, and also has a sense of loyalty to what you've been taught. This part also embodies your sense of guilt at the other part's wanting to "betray" your family, religion, and all associated traditons.
    I want the best of both worlds. That's all it is, I want to go out to a club and get completely hammered get into a fight, have a curry and go to bed. You can't always be in your wifes lap 24/7. But then again I don't want my wife to interrogate if I don't turn up home for a few days. or if am working and seeing a mistress on the side. Its an option not that I would actually have a mistress, but I'd like the option to be open to me.

    It's rather easy to see what's going on. You say that you "want" certain things, but do you really? Don't you think it's possible that you only think you want those things because you've told that that's what you should want in life, even though you don't realize it?
    I want to experience things, I want to know how it feels like. But theres some things I don't want. Like having to pray 5 times a day growing a bread, not allowed to drink, not allowed to watch tv not allowed listen to music. I don't want my freedoms to be taken away. You know I don't want to be the guy who's at home with 7 odd kids, trying to have sex with the wife while shes trying to breast feed a kid at the same time. And I can just picture that, trying to get my penis into her ass while shes breast feeding the kid and intop of that shes on her period. ew!

    With Si at the helm, I can see how you're confused. You probably associate your sense of self with these traditions, and have trouble rejecting them for that reason. What you have to realize is that they are only one way of looking at things. There are other people with other traditions that they value, and I think it will help if you find a new set of rules and traditions to embrace, although it will be hard to let go of the old ones. You have to try and really look at what you want, beyond tradition, rules, your self-image, security, or guilt, and that's going to be hard.
    I want to live like, the Islamic leaders who lived, like in the middle ages. Now those were traditions, like having a personal army having harems. Now its all just watered down.

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