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  1. #31
    Senior Member me_plus_one's Avatar
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    Licence to have children - sounds pretty communist.

    But heh, they sort of implemented it in China.

    And I do think that there are parents that shouldn't have children. I am not talking of those who beat/abuse their children, that's already evident, but of those who treat really crappy a child just to exaggerately praise another one and other stuff like that.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I don't make this up to disgust. I just see that it is a possibility that this kind of proposition might come up in my lifetime, and I don't have a clear-cut opinion about it, so I thought to get some thoughts from you guys.
    To understand, you'd need to study the history of eugenics.



    How much of your personal freedom are you willing to trade for to make some unknown children happier? It wouldn't really take away your freedom that much, if you are as I assume, a relatively normal person. Sure, I get your point (and this is not an easy question either), but, to me it seems like there is always someone to say that the freedom is at stake. There is also the well being of an entire generation of children at stake in our little imaginary situation.
    I'm child-free by choice, this isn't about my personal freedom, it is about a basic human freedom, the most basic of all, being able to decide whether or not to reproduce your own genes and have a family.



    I don't know. Would it not be a moral dilemma if we assume it works perfectly? Even if we could somehow calculate that it removes the parents that are sure to do damage, and no good parent is left out, it still doesn't take away the moral problem.
    This kind of thinking is more in line with eugenics and also in line with people who want to profile people before they commit crimes and take corrective action.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    In response to OP; I understand your thinking; often times it seems as though people go through a bunch of training, tests etc to make sure that they can responsibly handle a car, heck people even need licences to sell alcohol but yet two irresponsible people can have children and can do equally as much damage to them as a drunk person behind the wheel. We only have to look at child abuse figures so realise how much of a problem bad parenting is but can this be fixed with the intorduction of a licence?

    As others have mentioned, how would we enforce such a thing and I am particulary interested in the attributes that would qualify someone to gain one. This could go down a similar route to genetic engineering. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but is it the right one?
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  4. #34
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I am not completely against this notion. Maybe that makes me weird but I have a very strong disdain towards parents who just shouldn't be parents.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Come on people, you can argue morality all day long and accomplish nothing. All you need to do is look at the cost/benefit analysis to see that it's a horrible idea.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GargoylesLegacy View Post
    Honestly? They never made a license for having children because they all knew that nobody would pass the test and humanity would go right to the list of endangered species.
    I mean it. If you just look at how many people completely fail at raising kids you will see my point. Most of the parents are just too stupid to do it right. Sadly, I must say.
    Well, no one does the job perfectly, but I guess the license would be there to take away the most extreme cases. I do think that most parents are just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    In response to OP; I understand your thinking; often times it seems as though people go through a bunch of training, tests etc to make sure that they can responsibly handle a car, heck people even need licences to sell alcohol but yet two irresponsible people can have children and can do equally as much damage to them as a drunk person behind the wheel.
    Yeah, responsibility, that is what isn't logical with the way things are now. The society usually gives responsibility only if they can assume it is not used wrong. This is what I was trying to say. Why is there no checking when dealing with the one thing that needs more responsibility than anything else you might think of doing with your life?

    Or, if you want to adopt a child now, they check your crime record and finances and come to see how things are going and so on. They make sure the child is ok. If we think there shouldn't be control about who is to be a parent, why not just give those kids to anyone who wants them? They could just line them up at the market, slave trade style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Come on people, you can argue morality all day long and accomplish nothing. All you need to do is look at the cost/benefit analysis to see that it's a horrible idea.
    Interesting that the Ts talk about if it can be done while the question is if it should be done. Cost-benefit analysis said that going to moon was really stupid.

  7. #37
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    Why do you think it should be done? To give kids the best possible environment when growing up I presume, right?

    Well fine then, what's the BEST way to do it? Restricting beahvior can't and just shouldn't work for all of the reasons mentioned.

    If anything, we should do the superior thing to punitive measures/resitricting human behavior outright and offer positive incestives to be, let's say, a Registered Parent. Offer parents the incentive of some sort of tax break or Government handout (scaled according to financial need) if they attend Parenting classes (lol, taught by whom tho? *scratches head*) for 12ish hours out of a given year. It's not punitive or totalitarian like China, and would help "bad" parents become better ones while the good ones wouldn't necessarily have to bother (but might benefit from it too). Positive incentives will work much better in this case than restrictions would.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Why do you think it should be done? To give kids the best possible environment when growing up I presume, right?
    The kids should not be born among people who are so fucked-up they hardly resemble humans. So, kinda like "best possible environment", or more like "not the worst possible environment".

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    If anything, we should do the superior thing to punitive measures/resitricting human behavior outright and offer positive incestives to be, let's say, a Registered Parent. Offer parents the incentive of some sort of tax break or Government handout if they attend Parenting classes (lol, taught by whom tho? *scratches head*) for 12ish hours out of a given year. It's not punitive or totalitarian like China. Positive incentives will work much better in this case than restrictions would.
    Yeah, that would be good. If it became popular, it might really change things.

  9. #39
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    yeah hehe, but that's a big "IF" ..... getting the political momentum to get that kind of law passed would be phenomenal

  10. #40
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    I don't see why someone would be against it. Well, the registration, classes and tax cuts do take a lot of money... but other than that, it seems like it could do only good.

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