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  1. #11
    Sniffles
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    This is a very bad idea, and I would opposed it with every fiber of my body. This is very much in line with the concept of Eugenics - the belief in improving human qualitiy via selective breeding.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    And how many of those running at psychologists actually impede the intellectual's way of life. Society needs idiots. If everyone hit maximum productivity who would clean the toilets, serve the food in schools, collect your toll on the highway. Until AI and robots, we cannot have this society.
    Interesting. So I can't be productive if I am at "idiot job"? They are the real productivity, not the scientists. If the factory worker is happy, he doesn't make so many mistakes, etc. The elite is not important, it is the mass. If more people were happy, the amount of intellect would not rise much if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This is a very bad idea, and I would opposed it with every fiber of my body. This is very much in line with the concept of Eugenics - the belief in improving human qualitiy via selective breeding.
    Yeah, I have been thinking that too. The thing that makes it a little more complicated is that this is not exactly selective breeding, as it is based on the quality of parenting and not superiority of the genes or anything like that. Basically everyone can learn to be a good parent, they just don't always try. But, I do agree there is something very distasteful in this concept. I just don't feel it as strong as you (I can't say I am 50-50, though).

  3. #13
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Yeah, I have been thinking that too. The thing that makes it a little more complicated is that this is not exactly selective breeding, as it is based on the quality of parenting and not superiority of the genes or anything like that. Basically everyone can learn to be a good parent, they just don't always try. But, I do agree there is something very distasteful in this concept. I just don't feel it as strong as you (I can't say I am 50-50, though).
    That's still a fine line you're drawing there. And it still operates on the basic logic of having government interfere with the business of the family, which is the basic building block of society.

  4. #14
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Tough one. Sometimes I agree with this concept, than of course I read rational reasons why it shouldn't ever be enforced and it's harder to support it.

    Yet when I see for instance, a lady I know, who is a druggie, has had 8 children, all of whom are removed from her care as soon as they born, all of whom were born addicted to the drugs, and she is still out there now, fertile and ready to load up baby number 9, I wonder sometimes if prevention is better than the cure.

    Is it better to prevent her from be able to concieve, or to inflict the pain of removing the baby thus giving her yet more reason to lose herself in drugs, to blot the shame she must feel daily on her constant repeated failure? (i'm just guessing she would feel shame though)

    So, I'm pretty glad this isn't even up for a vote, because I honestly wouldn't know which way I would vote.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And it still operates on the basic logic of having government interfere with the business of the family
    Government already can do a lot to a family if something goes horribly wrong. Why shouldn't they do something when it isn't horribly wrong yet? Or even before that. I can't say that it is right to let an abusive father beat up his kids and wife for years without intervention. So, should he be allowed to have a child at all (if we could see the behavior pattern earlier)? It isn't an easy question...

    EDIT: Barbarella's example tells the story even better..

  6. #16
    heart on fire
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    Viserally disgusting idea.

    License to have a child would be the true start to Big Brother. I am not in favor of it at all. It would be the begining of the end of any sort of human freedom.

  7. #17
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Government already can do a lot to a family if something goes horribly wrong. Why shouldn't they do something when it isn't horribly wrong yet? Or even before that.
    Ok and by what criterea do we determine who's fit for parenting and who isn't, and just as importantly who makes that call?

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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Viserally disgusting idea.
    I don't make this up to disgust. I just see that it is a possibility that this kind of proposition might come up in my lifetime, and I don't have a clear-cut opinion about it, so I thought to get some thoughts from you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    It would be the begining of the end of any sort of human freedom.
    How much of your personal freedom are you willing to trade for to make some unknown children happier? It wouldn't really take away your freedom that much, if you are as I assume, a relatively normal person. Sure, I get your point (and this is not an easy question either), but, to me it seems like there is always someone to say that the freedom is at stake. There is also the well being of an entire generation of children at stake in our little imaginary situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ok and by what criterea do we determine who's fit for parenting and who isn't, and just as importantly who makes that call?
    I don't know. Would it not be a moral dilemma if we assume it works perfectly? Even if we could somehow calculate that it removes the parents that are sure to do damage, and no good parent is left out, it still doesn't take away the moral problem.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Interesting. So I can't be productive if I am at "idiot job"? They are the real productivity, not the scientists.
    No, that's not true. Scientists and Engineers, while making up 5 percent of the U.S. population, create 50 percent of the gross domestric product.
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  10. #20
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    It's a great idea.
    And they'd get cuppons to exchange their kids for a pet.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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