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  1. #21
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Well, I do think Bush has the confidence, independence, self-assuredness and likeability of a traditional Alpha. Barack has, at the least, the the likeability, but his less assertive nature leads me to believe he's less confident, independent and self-assured.

    Really, though, it's basically another failed joke that reminds me of why I spend most of my nights clutching wildly at the negative space around myself, hoping the comfort-giving warmth of another body might magically materialize.

  2. #22
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Don't worry. Actually, I laughed at the Bertrand Russell reference applied to them. I was like.. "Uh, is he still alive to even know those guys??!"

  3. #23
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Don't worry. Actually, I laughed at the Bertrand Russell reference applied to them. I was like.. "Uh, is he still alive to even know those guys??!"
    I had the same moment.


    I don't think it's about what is necessary and what isn't. It is simply about what is, as it exists. Alpha's will always exist, I don't think it's a condition that can be phased out of humanity as no longer necessary.
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  4. #24
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    The concept of an alpha male comes from packs of wild animals where survival of the group is first priority. Since the animals must fight for survival in nature, they fight amongst themselves to determine who is the most capable to lead and perpetuate their genetics.

    Humans tried to adapt this idea because they like the stigma, sort of like the idea of someone being a "lone wolf". Well, guess what, the lone wolf buys their groceries at Safeway and can summon protection and medical aid by pressing 3 buttons on their cell phone. The human "pack" is so developed there is simply no place for any such thing as an "alpha" except in the very narrow sense that "alpha" means first and someone will inevitably be first at anything involving a hierarchy. The context of "who to follow" is so varied and complex that alpha male is simply a label for men to self-subscribe to feel more masculine. Are some people natural leaders? Of course, but in human society this could boil down to any number of factors, most of which have nothing to do with power, dominance, or survival. Workaholism, on the other hand...

    For example, some friends and I used to hang out on the weekend, and inevitably the time would come to select a restaurant to go eat at. Most of the time the same guy would pick where to eat, but let me tell you he would hardly fit anyone's idea of an "alpha male". He did know a lot of good places to eat, and in that sense for the sake of "pack survival" (lol) the rest of us would defer to his decision.

  5. #25
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Well, I do think Bush has the confidence, independence, self-assuredness and likeability of a traditional Alpha. Barack has, at the least, the the likeability, but his less assertive nature leads me to believe he's less confident, independent and self-assured.

    Really, though, it's basically another failed joke that reminds me of why I spend most of my nights clutching wildly at the negative space around myself, hoping the comfort-giving warmth of another body might magically materialize.
    Alphas aren't assertive... they're aggressive =3

    Assertives are betas at best.

    I'm curious as to the actual total heirarchy involved though, tried to do a quickish google search and didn't come up with much.

    I *THINK* I fall under beta female, rather than alpha, but I'm not really sure where it goes from there... and it's possible I might even be omega but I doubt it O.o

    I know there's alpha, beta, omega, and there's supposedly delta's but I've seen everything from delta to tri-delta so I'm not sure if there's some kind of sub-heirarchy there or whot O.o;

    Even then the definitions are... lacking.

    Beta males, in my research, have been listed as everything from "right hand man to the alpha male" to "just a pathetic wannabe" to "generally a better mate due to less aggression" and omegas have been called "superiour to the alpha in every way but without the need to boast" to "too weak to be an alpha" O.o

    If someone actually has a strong understanding of this it'd be kinda nice to know since they're such broad terms and apparently have many different explanations, that I'm really not sure whot to believe XD

    It'd be neat to know though ^^

  6. #26
    Member Illict91's Avatar
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    Alpha males/females cannot be applied to society or large groups as a whole, as one person pointed out here, the human pack is too large and complex.

    It can definitely been seen in specific circles of friends, colleagues, students etc.

    Alpha in what sense? Financial, sexual, interpersonal . . . . .
    ENTJ

    Te > Ni > Ti > Se = Si > Fe > Ne > Fi

  7. #27
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    There has always been, and will always be a demand for LEADERSHIP in this world.

    I don't care what anybody says, part of leadership is having some "ALPHA" instinct. With the power to lead comes responsibility for the success of the endeavor at hand. Good leaders are masters of working with and through people in order to accomplish a mission objective. Another characteristic of good leaders is the ability to ensure that their staff have the right blend of people, tools to work with, and time to complete their work, and if there is a deficiency in any of these categories rattling the infrastructure until the gaps are filled.

    Alpha males/females have gotten a bad rap as of late, especially around here. In the modern context alpha leadership qualities are not about beating down the rest of your pack and using your physical might to ensure your interests alone are maintained while others get second best. The entire landscape of things has changed. There is no "pack" anymore that satisfies all contexts of life. We have a familial "pack" and a "pack" at work and another at school. And I can't identify anything wrong with someone who wants all aspects of their life to be successful.

    To be an ALPHA you must marshall your capabilities for the sake of achieving what it is you have committed yourself to, and the people that have agreed to support you in your efforts. Use your strength, intelligence, charisma, resourcefulness, endurance, and determination to make things happen. For there to be order in any aspect of human life, someone has to be in charge, and that person must be able to do what needs to be done and be willing to do it when it must done.

    Are there some "bad" alpha personality types out there? Yes. But I guarantee you there are just as many "bad" betas out there and an equivalent number of "bad" omegas. Not everyone who exhibits the desire and capacity to lead is a power hungry sociopath.

    Just as humankind would be immensely boring if everyone were the same MBTI type, or if all of us were the same Enneagram type, we would be ineffective if there were not a healthy case mix of people with regard to their desire and ability to lead. Not everyone is a leader, some people prefer to participate as followers, or in supporting roles. In doing so those in supporting roles free themselves of the stress and responsibility of being a leader. And the leaders benefit too from the efforts of loyal and capable supporters of their cause.

    So let us respect and appreciate each other's preferences with regard to human pack instincts, as none of us can do all we need to on our own.
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  8. #28
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Yeah they are necessary, especially the men, although nowadays they seem to be in the shadow of these guys that you see in rom-coms.

  9. #29
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    When were they ever necessary?

    Their benefit to the pack was never the reason they were around, self benefit's responsible.

    Alphas are only necessary to reach the goals which they have supplied themselves, their world view of constant "improvement" isn't necessary to our survival.

    So fuck em, they're a bunch of selfish trouble makers.
    wails from the crypt.

  10. #30
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Alphas are for the dogs.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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