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  1. #331
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillerz View Post
    I don't cry. I shed manly elixir.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I bet it has hair floating in it.
    Ick.
    QFT.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #332
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Did they put you under before the operation?
    ya i dont remember a thing... woulda been nice so i could answer this question.

    oh well lol
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  3. #333
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Tears and Anger

    What is interesting is that women cry out of anger. Quite often they express their anger through crying.

    But I find it hard to imagine a man expressing his anger through tears.

    So I think it is fair to say that tears have a different meanings for women and men.

    Men want to be good, so with the feminisation of society, men have tried to discover their inner woman.

    But it always comes across as false.

    This is because tears mean something different to a man than a woman.

  4. #334
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    ...This is because tears mean something different to a man than a woman.
    What do tears mean to a man?
    (If a man sheds them? vs if a woman sheds them?)

    I remember crying a lot when I was young when I was mad, because I was so frustrated. But I also found it embarrassing, I felt like people used it to disregard my opinions, so I learned to bury it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #335
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    Default Don't cry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What do tears mean to a man?
    (If a man sheds them? vs if a woman sheds them?)

    I remember crying a lot when I was young when I was mad, because I was so frustrated. But I also found it embarrassing, I felt like people used it to disregard my opinions, so I learned to bury it.
    I find it hard to answer the question. All I can say is that it seems ridiculous for a man to express his anger through tears.

    And it is interesting that when a woman is crying, a man will say, "Don't cry".

    At one level he is trying to comfort her. But at another deeper level, he is afraid of her anger.

    As well he might, because crying through anger is disguised anger and it is looking for a way to attack him at his most vulnerable point.

    So naturally he says, "Don't cry".

  6. #336
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I find it hard to answer the question. All I can say is that it seems ridiculous for a man to express his anger through tears.
    Because he should be strong enough to channel his anger into positive action, instead of merely crying?

    Since I mentioned women cry when frustrated... why do you think they are frustrated?

    And it is interesting that when a woman is crying, a man will say, "Don't cry". At one level he is trying to comfort her. But at another deeper level, he is afraid of her anger.
    or perhaps he's uncomfortable because:
    - he might not feel like consoling her but now feels forced to or he'll be seen as a "heartless guy" for not helping or maybe for making her cry at all?
    - her tears make him face the emotions, which he doesn't understand or know how to deal with, and he's embarrassed at being inadequate?

    Lots of possibilities. I'm sure there are more.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Because he should be strong enough to channel his anger into positive action, instead of merely crying?
    I think it is completely unconscious.

    However I do think forms of crying are shaped by society.

    After all, the first thing they asked when I was born was, is it a boy or a girl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Since I mentioned women cry when frustrated... why do you think they are frustrated?
    I think both men and women feel frustrated when they can't reach their goals.

    And frustration leads naturally to anger.

    And I think women tend to disguise their goals, even from themselves, so it is natural to disguise their anger in tears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    or perhaps he's uncomfortable because:
    - he might not feel like consoling her but now feels forced to or he'll be seen as a "heartless guy" for not helping or maybe for making her cry at all?
    - her tears make him face the emotions, which he doesn't understand or know how to deal with, and he's embarrassed at being inadequate?

    Lots of possibilities. I'm sure there are more.
    Sure there are lots of possibilities.

    And it is important to remember that anger is fundamentally enlivening because anger is a form of reaching out explosively to others.

    While depression, for instance, is a way of withdrawing from others.

    And it is not love or hate or anger that is the killer, but indifference.

    The problem is that disguised anger is also disguised from the person experiencing it.

    And being disguised, it is not subject to the normal processes of conscience.

    And so without thinking, without conscience, disguised anger can be directed at the most vulnerable part of the victim.

    This is why men are afraid of women.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 12-05-2008 at 02:49 AM. Reason: Merging 4 post(s)

  8. #338
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And it is important to remember that anger is fundamentally healthy because anger is a form of reaching out explosively to others.

    While depression, for instance, is a way of withdrawing from others.
    That's actually a beautiful point and I admired it when you said it (because you're prioritizing relationship rather than comfort).

    Until about 1 second later, when the thought came to mind: "Tell that to the child whose mom just beat the dickens out of him with a rolling pin, rather than just withdrawing and getting depressed."

    Sigh.

    Realism hits idealism head-on.
    Realism wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The problem is that disguised anger is also disguised from the person experiencing it.
    I disagree with your premise.
    This is not necessarily true.

    Usually when people cry, they're not completely oblivious to the emotions driving it. (Especially if they're female.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's actually a beautiful point and I admired it when you said it (because you're prioritizing relationship rather than comfort).
    I think you should have stopped there as it is very nice to be admired.

  10. #340
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's actually a beautiful point and I admired it when you said it (because you're prioritizing relationship rather than comfort).

    Until about 1 second later, when the thought came to mind: "Tell that to the child whose mom just beat the dickens out of him with a rolling pin, rather than just withdrawing and getting depressed."

    Sigh.

    Realism hits idealism head-on.
    Realism wins.
    Sure. However, what about the depressive mother who withdraws and allows the family to fall into chaos, or the depressive father who withdraws and abandons his children both emotionally and literally, or the depressed mother who resorts to drink and allows chaos to enter the home.

    There are worse things than being beaten.

    Anger is externalized pain, depression is internalized pain. Boredom is rage spread thin.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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