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  1. #41
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I just *LOVE* threads where people with zero first-hand experience are suddenly experts!
    Come rant in the thread that spawned this thread!!
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    My first impulsive rant in months and it's in the wrong section!
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  3. #43
    Junior Member HanoverFist's Avatar
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    Kids happen that's just the way it is. I don't know anyone that was actually prepared for what was in store for them. Lots of children come from bad homes that turn out to be very well adjusted people. Even though some kids grow up to be a piece of shit, the world still turns. There will never be a perfect world full of well adjusted people that think and plan everything they do. If they did a lot of us wouldn't be here and possibly even you Heart.
    Scuse me, gotta run, some 'feeling type' is walking towards me trying to make something called conversation

  4. #44
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Not coming into existence doesn't seem so bad to me, and yes I do come from one of those situations.

  5. #45
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by HanoverFist View Post
    Kids happen that's just the way it is.


    Welcome to the 21st Century

    Quote Originally Posted by HanoverFist View Post
    I don't know anyone that was actually prepared for what was in store for them. Lots of children come from bad homes that turn out to be very well adjusted people. Even though some kids grow up to be a piece of shit, the world still turns.
    You are trying to turn what I said into an extreme version of what I actually said.

    What I said was, if a person cannot take care of their own life or are just barely caring for their own life, then it would be beneficial to everyone involved in the situation if they were honest about it and thought twice about whether or not they are up for the challenges of parenthood.

    I never said that a person could be prepared for *everything* that might be in store for them as a parent. It is so much hyperbole on your part to try and spin what I said into that kind of extremism. I am talking about the basics. There is a big leap between being prepared for *everything* and simply being up to providing the basics of daily life. If you cannot see that difference then it is pointless to continue the discussion.

    There will never be a perfect world full of well adjusted people that think and plan everything they do.
    I am not talking about perfection. You keep taking what I say and stretching it out to its most extreme end. There is a huge difference between "perfect" and "adequate." Again, I am not talking about being prepared for every possible scenario, I am talking about taking a hard, honest look at one's life and if one cannot or can barely care for self, then certainly it goes against all common sense to add a child to that situation.

    If they did a lot of us wouldn't be here and possibly even you Heart.
    This appeal to the emotions is so irrelevant to the subject at hand. What matter is it how any of us came to be in the world when discussing the children of the future who have yet to be conceived? People can change their decisions for the better. It seems natural to want to make things better for each continuing generation of children. That's human progress at its finest.

  6. #46
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I just *LOVE* threads where people with zero first-hand experience are suddenly experts! My parents were very young and we grew up exceptionally poor in total filth. I won't go into stories on it except to say that by the "standards" given here I should not have been born. I was short-changed? I think not. I am alive, well-adjusted and fairly happy. I ate which is more then can be said for children in other countries. My goal is to do better then my parents. My parents told me their goal was the same. People make mistakes, poor decisions and except in worst-case scenarios kids end up being just fine. I myself was pretty close to a worst-case scenario and probably by todays standards 'abused'. I was young (19) and immature when I had my first child and we don't have 'money/energy to spare' certainly. My kids are happily loved and cared for and rarely need disciplined. I consider myself a great parent and hold no ill-will towards my own parents-thanks.
    You really don't know me and you don't know how I grew up or what goes on in my family or my in-law family, so I do not know how you can claim that I have no first hand experience with family dysfunction or denial mechanisms.

    When I said no money to spare, I was meaning *before* the children come, not after. It seems common sense if a person cannot meet their own basic needs before a child comes then it would be best to wait. I cannot see why anyone would get upset at seeing that in print.

    When I said "no energy to spare", I mean people who deal with limiting exahuastion from a physical or mental illness so much so that they either cannot or barely can meet the basic daily requirements of their responsibilities BEOFRE the child comes. I was not in any way meaning typical people who feel *beat* at the end of a long day of working and caring for children and I took pains to make sure I made that clear .... yet I knew sure as I typed the words someone would come in and twist it to mean that and I was not disappointed in that.

    Surely, anyone with any perspective at all can see that adding a child to that situation, without some real alternative solutions to help them, just does not make good sense. I am trying very hard to see the offensive nature of that statement.

    Somehow I think people here are taking things differently than I am meaning them.

    Comparing children who have never been born to living persons is just not something that I think makes any sense.


    My main point was about honesty with self about limitations and how denial mechanisms keep people from adding in their limitations into the equation when deciding to be parents.

    You have said yourself that you want to do better than your partents so why would the suggestion that people be honest with themselves when trying to do better than their parents be so offensive to you?

    Part of the reason it is not supported in our culture to examine self honestly before becoming a parent is illustrated in this very thread. It is almost taboo in this country to discuss this kind of thing. People put the feelings of people who are already parents, this belief that we cannot make any judgements about what is a good family planning choice and what is not, above the needs of children yet to be born. How can progress move forward if we're not able to examine the choices and decisions of the past?

    To me abuse still means what it always did, either physical or emotional cruelty towards a child. If you were abused, I am truly sorry to hear that and I am sorry my post brought up any bad feelings about that.

  7. #47
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    I want to read the original rant thread...
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  8. #48
    Senior Member Cerpin_Taxt's Avatar
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    Hanover Fist what's your avatar?
    One by one, over the months, the other bulbs burn out, and are gone. The first few of these hit Byron hard. He's still a new arrival, still hasn't accepted his immortality. But on through the burning hours he starts to learn about the transience of others: learns that loving them while they're here becomes easier, and also more intenseto love as if each design-hour will be the last.

    Thomas Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

    I can't go on, I'll go on.

    Samuel Beckett - The Unnamable

  9. #49
    Junior Member HanoverFist's Avatar
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    i really dont know where my avatar came from. I stumbled across it and thought it was cool.
    Scuse me, gotta run, some 'feeling type' is walking towards me trying to make something called conversation

  10. #50
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I completely agree with heart here. I wish there were not such an emphasis on the progression of career>marriage>babies, such that any time a person does it out of order or eliminates one or more of those elements they feel singled out. I skipped the career step and I've felt some heat for that, which is bullshit if you ask me, but I think the same thing of people who get flack for skipping the marriage and/or babies steps.

    If we as a culture could accept that people are equipped for and prefer different sets of experiences, then maybe there wouldn't be this external pressure to make babies. If other progressions were equally acceptable, then perhaps people would deliberate a bit more before they have children. I can't see how this could be anything but positive, frankly.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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