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View Poll Results: Is Nocapszy's writing intelligible

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  • Yes

    29 54.72%
  • No

    24 45.28%
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  1. #181
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    But I still don't half the time
    You understand me more than half the time.

    It's kinda unfair the tricks he pulls -- once he explains them to me, they make sense, but half of them are pretty much unguessable.
    Well now how exactly did I happen across them?
    Either I'm really good, or they're not really that far out of reach.
    I rather lean toward the one that says that they're not so far out of reach.

    I'm not really that good at figuring stuff out. I'm just way better than anyone else.
    Kill me if I don't bother with the miniscule implications which I figure ought to be just... assumed. Shouldn't the reader take at least some of the pressure off of me, and maybe try and flesh them out on their own?

    Can't you people reason on your own? The way I write gives the reader at least a little credit in the assuming that they'll be able to pick up the pieces. And I'm not even completely convinced that you guys can't. I just think you won't. Blue

    I don't have the time or energy to go on about every fucking thing. Props to BlueWing for being able to muster the focus, but it's not particularly impressive to me. Writing is a horrid tedium as slow as it is, but it's one I put up with as long as I can get to the result.

    People are so impatient... you all expect to sit down for a lesson like you sit down for a meal.

    Appalling that you say I'm the one being unfair.
    Meh. I usually ignore his odd posts assuming he'll explain later. I don't even try to guess anymore.
    Case in point.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #182
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Of course it's relevant. You can't clearly express anything if you don't understand it to begin with..
    You can express ideas that you do not have a clear understanding of, as you can simply state 'I do not understand X, or only have a fuzzy idea of what X is'.

    Generally mathematicians tend not to express ideas on topics they do not understand clearly. In most cases they have a very detailed proof in favor of the thesis they are arguing, and it is expressed in terms all other mathematicians understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Well in the first place, it's a little more than whether they disagree -- there are enormous tracks completely unaccounted for. ..
    That is not relevant. Whatever mathematicians covered, they have expressed to each other in clear terms. For this reason, they do understand each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    You might think this irrelevant, but I implore you to look a little deeper...
    Yes, I do think for what you have said up to this point in this post to be irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I'd prefer in the future you didn't use the scientific community against me without being pretty damned familiar with it yourself. ...
    Also irrelevant. Only the claims in themselves matter, the claim maker's biography is not relevant. In other words, in itself it tells us nothing about the integrity of the claims made by the claim maker.

    By the way however, I've read many philosophy of mathematics and logic books, so I have empirical evidence to support my claim that mathematicians are indeed able to clearly outline the tenets of their intellectual discipline. (Not relevant but an interesting fact)


    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    As you have shown to me time and again, you are not familiar with science or mathematics, and especially not mathematics....
    I have had exposure to both by virtue of my inquiry into philosophy of mathematics and philosophy of science. (Not relevant but an interesting fact)



    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    These are scientists of highly sophisticated means. They express their ideas 'clearly', and still there's fogginess.
    If their ideas were truly clear, there would be no question at all. We'd know where each and ever piece of the universe is.
    But we don't, so there's obviously no clarity.....
    The fogginess consists in the lack of information, not in obscurity of their communication. So much of the universe is unknown not because the scientists cannot discuss ideas with each other effectively, but simply because they have not done enough research on the matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    The problem? They're unwilling to search effectively.
    This is the real problem with the public and with concise expression: Puts too little strain on the receiving end. They're lazy..I'll tell you what the real bottom line is.
    $$ Money $$
    Scientists and mathematicians alike are more concerned with organizing their ideas into easily digestible packages which they can sell than they are in actually searching long enough to achieve insight
    ....

    Here you support my claim that the reason why we lack knowledge of the universe is other than the lack of clear communication between the scientists.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  3. #183
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Hey CC, guess what.
    I don't care about the responsibilities of a communicatee.
    Know why? 'Cause I'm not one.
    I am philosoher on high. Make me a request and you shall be dealt with in a similar manner to the way The Good Lord deals with his believers.
    Your prayer will be answered with a yes (I will answer, and explain), a no ((I won't answer or elucidate) or maybe (I'll answer later, but I'm too busy right now pulling on myself.)

    I don't care that YOU don't buy it. Not everything is about you.
    Is this intelligable?

    I just see extreme arrogance in his trhead and refusal to accept any opinion differing from his own. whether his posts are intelligable or not i do not know. But then again, often i have a similar problem myself (more evident in another forum),so i have no right to point fingers.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

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  4. #184
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Arrogance doesn't invalidate the message imo, only to the extent that you make it.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  5. #185
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    Arrogance doesn't invalidate the message imo, only to the extent that you make it.
    Arrogance invalidates the message to the extent that you make it?

    What does that mean?

    To some extent arrogants renders the message 'invalid' as in logically invalid? Or lacking in some way?

    How so?

    The merits of the message are to be decided by the content of the message. Specifically, whether it is deductively valid and founded on true premises. The attitude of its author is irrelevant.

    In other words, what I said ought to be judged as true or false based strictly on the content of what I said, whether I said it superciliously or with humility has nothing to do with the integrity of my message.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #186
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    ^ He means that arrogance has nothing to do with the message, and it only complicates matters if you let it.

  7. #187
    Senior Member ENTJ Extraordinaire's Avatar
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    arrogance has no effect on the message, however, it is more than capable of clouding the authors ability to be able to put forth a message succinctly, and in a manner that a reasonable person would be willing to accept.

    any intelligible conversation goes two ways, it must be said, and heard. and if you speak with arrogance, then your listener is not likely to focus on the message so much as the arrogance you put it forth with. as such, its a distraction from your message, and is a hindrance to effective communication.

    this however, has nothing to do with conversation being 'intelligible'. to me intelligible means clear and understandable. there is not so much of a problem with this, nor does arrogance effect this fact.

    so perhaps while arrogance effects effective communication, it does not have any sway on this topic imo.
    Actualized type: ENTJ
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  8. #188
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Well, no arrogance can effect how the message is percieved by the audience.
    People are more clear about what you want to say when you put it in a manner of clairty and openess. Whereas arrogance can be percieved as a defense of your own ego, rather than putting what you want to say across. You can say things you don;t necessart mean, even to the point of thrusting out inaccurate facts, to justify your opinion when your ego is bruised,

    I done this many times myself.
    Last edited by yenom; 11-05-2008 at 03:44 AM. Reason: spelling mistake
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  9. #189
    Senior Member ENTJ Extraordinaire's Avatar
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    ah, so now you are arguing INACCURACY of fact. still nothing to do with the problem at hand, INTELLIGIBILITY.

    just because i am arguing a point without any evidence, or with facts i have just made up doesn't mean its any harder to UNDERSTAND what i say, its still very possible to see my point.
    Actualized type: ENTJ
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  10. #190
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    I understand Nocapszy's posts just fine.
    Of course you do.
    He is intelligent, clear and concise.

    Detail does not differentiate.
    Relevance does.

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