S descriptions of Ns?

[proteanmix]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

My ESFP son is extremely creative... but what I see with SP types who are creative is that they tend to enjoy putting together sensory/tactile stimulations in new and different ways, without necessarily a deep vision in mind. With my son, it's like you just upended a bunch of objects / puzzle pieces together, and he takes them all and makes something out of it just because he likes how it feels or looks, then he can mix them all back together and do it again, without real rhyme or reason.

It's like he's experiment with creating different combinations of things for the pure sensation and experience of doing so.

An ISFP friend of mine used to drive me batty when we would eat together. When he was full, he'd take the leftover food and condiments from his plate and whomever elses (usually without asking) and make designs on his plate and mix them up and whatnot, sometimes making a disgusting mess. He just got a kick out of it. He was being creative and seeing what he could come up with and what happened.

Sometimes SP artists (was Mozart ISFP?) *can* have some real coherency and structure, such as with Mozard's music. It's usually to evoke some sort of tangible feeling state -- an aesthetic quality of some sort.

An N, in contrast, usually has some conceptual purpose or meaning in what they are doing and they are using sensory things in order to evoke that deeper meaning. It's less about the sensory impressions and experience and random combinations of things, and more about organizing the things to suggest something else entirely. There's like a method to the madness, and the tools and items are being used to peer into something else... the art is the "signifier" and the signpost, and NOT the actual end result itself.

That has just been my experience and seems to make sense, if we are going to generalize at all.

This sounds kinda arbitrary like monkeys randomly typing a Shakespeare play. Do you think that SPs don't methodically have a vision or purpose they want to convey or is it really this hit or miss?

BTW, I understand you were generalizing.

[Uberfuhrer]

I see what Jennifer means. I can see an SP creating an impressionist painting based on direct observation or perhaps doing a collage or something like that. I think an SP artist would more like to do art because it involves working with their hands. So in that way, it's more related to sports than anything.

When I'm working on my art, I'm quite impatient working with my hands, I just want to get my ideas out. Personally, I hate painting, because there's too much detail work. My drawings are comic book like:

Galaxy

Radioactive Saltines (this is oil pastel)

Castle of Satan

Search & Rescue

Du Bist Was Du Isst

Blitzkrieg

[proteanmix]

Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer

I see what Jennifer means. I can see an SP creating an impressionist painting based on direct observation or perhaps doing a collage or something like that. I think an SP artist would more like to do art because it involves working with their hands. So in that way, it's more related to sports than anything.

I understand Jennifer also, but it seems like people are implying that SPs create purposeless art that also happens to be beautiful. It's like Stumble upon. If I'm misunderstanding then please tell me.

My tiny experience with SPs and art is when I was a makeup artist. Many of the MUAs, who were mostly SPs, would come up with these very elaborate and conceptual themes for fashion shows and make-up the models faces accordingly. I was the one doing literal interpretations of what I saw in a fashion magazine or what the client wanted while they were way more thematic --abstract if you will-- about it.

[Nighthawk]

Originally Posted by Economica

I guess I should formulate a question for iNtuitives as well.

How do you go about introducing the S/N dimension to Sensers and are you successful (i.e. do they self-identify as preferring S to N)?

*edits OP*

I have never been successful in doing that ... that I know of. They usually just feel that I have my head in the clouds or am spouting nonsense.

[Nighthawk]

With respect to creativity ... I always though that was a J/P thing ... rather than an S/N thing ... with P's having the creative edge and J's having the practical edge.

[Uberfuhrer]

People seem to confuse the terms creativity and imagination (kind of like being smart is confused with being intelligent). Imagination is a more mental process, while creativity is physical (the ability to create).

Creativity seems much broader than imagination. Creativity can take the form of being either practical or mental. For example, all art is creative, because it was created. But it's not always imaginative.

I think imagination is a product of iNtuition, but not creativity.

I think creativity is manifested in any of the extraverted functions. Se will create by directly shaping the environment. Ne will first conceptualize and then bring its vision into the environment. Te will control and direct the environment. Fe will establish harmony in the environment.

[Nighthawk]

Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer

I think creativity is manifested in any of the extraverted functions. Se will create by directly shaping the environment. Ne will first conceptualize and then bring its vision into the environment. Te will control and direct the environment. Fe will establish harmony in the environment.

Good point ... I've never seen it explained this way ... but it makes sense to me.

[reason]

S: Concrete, Common Sense, Matter-of-fact, Reliable, Always right
N: Flakey, Nonsensical, Rambling, Can write whole paragraphs without saying anything

[Economica]

Originally Posted by nocturne

S: Concrete, Common Sense, Matter-of-fact, Reliable, Always right
N: Flakey, Nonsensical, Rambling, Can write whole paragraphs without saying anything

Thank you! (Though I don't know about the "always right" part. )

[Varelse]

Originally Posted by Economica

Thank you! (Though I don't know about the "always right" part. )

That's only for SJ's.

I know an SP who could be considered quite creative-decorating, floral design, etc. I guess it seems that the purpose of her work is to improve the way things look-make them cute, or beautiful-and perhaps bring some pleasure to others with it. A perfectly legitimate aim, but not the same one that I have when I engage in creative activities-I tend to want to make others think (grok?) with my works, which has its place, but is by no means the entirety of creativity.