S descriptions of Ns?

[ptgatsby]

Originally Posted by Fiver

I am interested to hear more about how/why you changed your identification.

My rant starts here - please feel free to post in that thread/blog if (you, or anyone) if you have any particular problems or questions.

[Jeffster]

Originally Posted by sarah

my not believing that the're anything the matter with being gay (as in homosexual.)

STOP GOING OFF-TOPIC

[bluemonday]

I'm not on your wavelength dude.

Originally Posted by ptgatsby

All of this is pointless, anyway.

now there's something we can agree on.

[Cimarron]

I've come to think of the Intuitive factor as "creativity, originality, generating ideas (as opposed to improving ideas)", while Sensing would have more "awareness". I got there by assuming my type is correct, then discerning what traits I don't have and calling those "N". Don't know how well that works.

[sarah]

Originally Posted by bluemonday

Sarah's point, or one of them (her main point seems to be that she is p*ssed off with the condescension and perceived superiority of Ns in this forum and elsewhere) is:
"Something's clearly wrong with the way these tests are worded, seeing as how so many people are being misled by them."

(Now this suggests that these people who "identify with iNtuitive descriptions" initially, also test as intuitives, although she doesn't really clarify this point.) If I believed the MBTI test was so error-prone I would have a fundamental problem with the test in question, and I wouldn't accord it credence. And I would probably be more interested in writing a new test, than in "creating a website or a blog for ISFPs about our type preferences". Since, if the test is suspect, why should I believe that there is such as thing as an ISFP as defined by the MBTI? Put another way, I find MBTI compelling in part because of its accuracy in predicting types and typical behavior. If I didn't, I'd file it under BS and that would be that. (It's currently filed under "pending").

Blue, are you qualified to administer the MBTI? Do you use type professionally in any way? I'm wondering why you're defending the Myers Briggs Type Indicator. How on earth can you know that the MBTI is "compelling in its' accuracy?" Have you ever talked with type practitioners who complain about the INaccuracy of that instrument? I have. Even highly respected type theorists also complain about it. There are articles written on the subject by type theorists and practitioners both on the APTI website as well as 16types.com, if you'd care to actually find out what is being discussed professionally in the world of type.

Tests tell you a lot about the test-maker's idea of what it might be like to have certain preferences. They also can tell you what you think you know about yourself. What I was trying to say originally was that that a lot of people I know who actually prefer Sensing believe at first that they prefer iNtuition as a result of taking the MBTI and the Keirsey test. It doesn't seem to matter what quality the test is -- "S"s many times get "N" results despite their actual preferences, which they only discover once they've bothered to read material on psychological type and understand the patterns of the four temperaments.

Originally Posted by bluemonday

If it is the official MBTI test, and not just something some first year psych student has knocked up in his spare time, there are a number of possible explanations:-
Perhaps these people that test as Ns, but subsequently self-type as S, are in fact Ns, with little self-knowledge, or perhaps they are not highly differentiated.

I'd say the test questions are worded in a way that is confusing, and the N responses are just more desirable for many people regardless of their preference for Sensing.

Originally Posted by bluemonday

Or perhaps they are influenced by a cultural preference for S (note I do believe there is a cultural preference for S, in most industrial societies). Or perhaps they are too bloody stoopid to understand the questions. Who knows?

Oh, so now you question the intelligence of anyone who identifies with test answers that don't fit their actual preferences? Can you show me how these two are related? I'd love to know whether people here consider themselves "bloody stoopid" simply because they may chose to identify with words and phrases that related in some way to how they choose to live their lives, even if it turned out those phrases didn't correspond with what they believe is their best fit type.

Sarah
ISFP

[sarah]

Originally Posted by Cimarron

I've come to think of the Intuitive factor as "creativity, originality, generating ideas (as opposed to improving ideas)", while Sensing would have more "awareness". I got there by assuming my type is correct, then discerning what traits I don't have and calling those "N". Don't know how well that works.

As an artist, I consider myself creative, original, and an idea generator. I do not have a preference for intuition, and I do not like it when those words are believed to be linked ONLY with the N temperaments.

Sarah
ISFP

[Cimarron]

Originally Posted by sarah

As an artist, I consider myself creative, original, and an idea generator. I do not have a preference for intuition, and I do not like it when those words are believed to be linked ONLY with the N temperaments.

All right, well, I'll take that into consideration. I'm still trying to get a hold of what Intuition is, exactly. I told you my process, which was just based on personal experience and identification. Hope your day goes well!

[sarah]

Originally Posted by bluemonday

I confess I'm flumoxed ( <-- me, being flumoxed)
Creating a minority group? Do you really believe Myers et al sat down and said, now then, how can we invent a test which creates an artificial minority elite and makes everyone else feel like sh*t about themselves? Honestly?

I think Myers imagined what it might be like to prefer Sensing, but didn't get a lot of the details right, and linked words that apply to everyone to just the intuitive types. The result is people not being able to identify with Sensing, even if they do happen to fit the SJ or SP temperaments.

If words such as creative, idea generator, seeing the big picture, etc. were not ERRONEOUSLY linked to having a preference for intuition, then there wouldn't be so much confusion. Actually, instead of calling people "intuitives" or "sensors", as though people can't use both, more accurate terms would be "having a preference for intuition" and "having a preference for sensing".

Originally Posted by bluemonday

You will find in much of the literature and many personal accounts, how agonizing and isolating it can be to grow up as an N in an S-world.

I don't know how many times I've already said on this list that I sympathize with anyone here who has been victimized by people who don't understand or appreciate your preferences. Would it astonish you to know that SPs are regularly put down --quite harshly, too-- for their lifestyle preferences?

Sarah
ISFP

[sarah]

Originally Posted by ptgatsby

My rant starts here - please feel free to post in that thread/blog if (you, or anyone) if you have any particular problems or questions.

WOW! ptgatsby, I love your rant! It says a lot of what I've always thought, although I was waffling back and forth between INFP and ISFP for years before finally realizing which temperament pattern really fit me.

By the way, I also loathe Type Talk at Work with a passion. I was amused to see one type practitioner on another discussion list I belong to complain that author Otto Kroeger is responsible for a lot of the bias against Ss.

Sarah
ISFP

[ygolo]

Just curious.

It seems like those who are most vocal about N bias in the Myers-Briggs system are those who are borderline on the N-S preference or self-identified as N before before switching to an S type.

Is this true? If so, what do people believe is the reason for that?

Incidentally, I tested as ISTP my senior year of high-school with one of those paper tests (I don't know which form). I joined MBTIc, INTPc and MBTI-nebulous as an IxxP (I am rather close on the T-F preference as well). But later decided I was INTP based on the Understanding Yourself and Others series of books.