ESTP or ESFP?

[INTJMom]

Me again.

I realized I mis-judged my father. He is not an ENTP.

But now I am questioning whether he is more of an ESTP or ESFP?

What would be the major differences in a male?

[Wolf]

In the other thread you mention he doesn't have a real job and hustles people. He's an ESTP.

ESFPs genuinely believe they are helping/loving people. You can usually figure out which they are based on these, and also the number of sexual partners they've had - ESFPs will generally have about twice as many, provided everything else is equal, but they won't have gained much of anything from them, or at least they won't claim they did.

My dad is an ESTP and he constantly talks about things he did where he feels like he exploited someone or something. It's an unmistakable pattern that is common to all EXTPs, but particularly ESTPs.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Wolf

In the other thread you mention he doesn't have a real job and hustles people. He's an ESTP.

Oops. My ESFP son (and other ESFPs I know) can easily be hustlers. My son is only 11 and he has become a money-obsessed nut. Part of the problem is that it burns a hole in his pocket and he needs more money to make up for the money he wasted (high outflow demands high inflow for him; he would never THINK of curbing his spending habits!)

A few weeks ago, he insisted of peddling his junk at a community yardsale. While at a neighbor's sale, he saw a little stuffed dolphin for 25 cents. One of his girlfriends who lives up the street loves stuffed dolphins (she collects them) and he saw opportunity. So he bought it. Then he came home and CALLED her on the phone to tell her about it (rather than hoping she would notice, he created the opportunity for a sale), and convinced her to come down and buy the thing. He made $4 off the deal -- and she even knew what he had done! It was a 1500% markup (!).

He exploited the situation... without feeling bad about it. When we teased him about how he was willing to fleece his friends, he just laughed and said, "Well, she gave me the money."

Tell me again how ESFPs don't like to hustle?

The difference I think is that an ESTP can come off as a bastard when he hustles someone -- he tends to be more direct and hard and abrasive, even when he is being "slick." You know you're being worked over, even if you can't explain why, and at some level you might resent it because you know you are the "loser." The ESTP puts himself up by putting you down and conquering you.

ESFPs are much more likely to hustle people by truly winning them over. Even if you know their intentions, you still like them and do not feel nearly as much resentment, like there was a contest going on and you "lost." They're softer and more engaging on a personal level.

[Blackwater]

well based on the info you provided in the other thread he is almost certainly an estp.

esfp = boyish charms. tigger from winnie the pooh

estp = smooth operator. james bond

[anii]

My mom was an ESFP - she was the life of any party.

For the other ESFPs I've known, the same thing goes. Notice I didn't say they throw great parties. But if you are lucky enough for them to show up at yours, you will see what I mean. The other thing is, they are not comfortable with deep emotions. I think mine used to freak my mother out.

IMO the easiest way to tell the difference between T and F is in the eyes. Fs just have more warmth in them.

Again, from experience, ESFPs like to make everyone around them comfortable and they do that by being bubbly and entertaining. Unlike ESTPs they don't entertain themselves at other people's expense; they want others to feel comfortable and be entertained as well.

My stereotypes would be:

ESTP - used car salesman
ESFP - entertainer, clown

[Blackwater]

INFP - Physiognomist

[quietgirl]

Originally Posted by anii

My mom was an ESFP - she was the life of any party.

For the other ESFPs I've known, the same thing goes. Notice I didn't say they throw great parties. But if you are lucky enough for them to show up at yours, you will see what I mean. The other thing is, they are not comfortable with deep emotions. I think mine used to freak my mother out.

IMO the easiest way to tell the difference between T and F is in the eyes. Fs just have more warmth in them.

Again, from experience, ESFPs like to make everyone around them comfortable and they do that by being bubbly and entertaining. Unlike ESTPs they don't entertain themselves at other people's expense; they want others to feel comfortable and be entertained as well.

Be careful with the "warmth" judgement, though. ESTP's have a tertiary Fe. My mother is VERY giving with the people she loves. She's been known to give my brother and I money if we're in a bind, REGARDLESS of whether or not she has it - which may be an indicator of how she doesn't exactly use Fe gracefully. She has selflessly taken care of my dying grandmother for the past couple years. Also, she has driven through a few states just to be there for me during a hard time. Again, a very extreme use of Fe, but it's there. She's just very bad with her OWN emotions - something I struggle with as well. I don't feel her eyes are "cold", but I don't think I notice that stuff as well as an INFP either.

The life of a party is tough because my mother tends to dominant a social situation, too. She can really sell herself, regardless of the situation. However, this is coming from an introvert...

[anii]

Originally Posted by quietgirl

Be careful with the "warmth" judgement, though. ESTP's have a tertiary Fe.

If that were the case, I would've typed IMJ.

Another stereotype...

ENTP - provocateur

[INTJMom]

Originally Posted by Wolf

In the other thread you mention he doesn't have a real job and hustles people. He's an ESTP.

ESFPs genuinely believe they are helping/loving people. You can usually figure out which they are based on these, and also the number of sexual partners they've had - ESFPs will generally have about twice as many, provided everything else is equal, but they won't have gained much of anything from them, or at least they won't claim they did.

My dad is an ESTP and he constantly talks about things he did where he feels like he exploited someone or something. It's an unmistakable pattern that is common to all EXTPs, but particularly ESTPs.

That's very convincing.

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Oops. My ESFP son (and other ESFPs I know) can easily be hustlers. ...

The difference I think is that an ESTP can come off as a bastard when he hustles someone -- he tends to be more direct and hard and abrasive, even when he is being "slick." You know you're being worked over, even if you can't explain why, and at some level you might resent it because you know you are the "loser." The ESTP puts himself up by putting you down and conquering you.

ESFPs are much more likely to hustle people by truly winning them over. Even if you know their intentions, you still like them and do not feel nearly as much resentment, like there was a contest going on and you "lost." They're softer and more engaging on a personal level.

Thanks for muddying up the water, there Jennifer.
Seriously, thanks for that input.
I am still not sure.

Originally Posted by Blackwater

well based on the info you provided in the other thread he is almost certainly an estp.

esfp = boyish charms. tigger from winnie the pooh

estp = smooth operator. james bond

You know he just may be Tigger after all.
I am so confused!!!

Originally Posted by anii

My mom was an ESFP - she was the life of any party.

For the other ESFPs I've known, the same thing goes. ...

When my father throws his annual party, he invites 300 people.

IMO the easiest way to tell the difference between T and F is in the eyes. Fs just have more warmth in them.

INFPs are better at that than I am.

Again, from experience, ESFPs like to make everyone around them comfortable and they do that by being bubbly and entertaining. Unlike ESTPs they don't entertain themselves at other people's expense; they want others to feel comfortable and be entertained as well.

THOSE are some powerful words.
My father does entertain himself at other people's expense.
It's practically his identity.

My stereotypes would be:

ESTP - used car salesman
ESFP - entertainer, clown

He does both. And of course, he is older. I'm trying to think of how he was when I was young.

Originally Posted by Blackwater

INFP - Physiognomist

Hmm... are you trying to make me lose my mind?!

Originally Posted by quietgirl

Be careful with the "warmth" judgement, though. ESTP's have a tertiary Fe. My mother is VERY giving with the people she loves. ...

The life of a party is tough because my mother tends to dominant a social situation, too. She can really sell herself, regardless of the situation. However, this is coming from an introvert...

My father is the life of the party. As a matter of fact, you better not steal the show!

Originally Posted by quietgirl

I read that you are questioning the T/F...

One thing that makes it clear that my mother is a T, despite her charm (she oozes it) and charismatic way with people is her blunt, inability to consider anyone else's feelings when making decisions and even talking to people - UNLESS she wants something out of them, which is a whole 'nother story. Remember, the ESTP is your classic salesman. She does have an uncanny ability to seize the moment and manipulate the current situation to get what she wants.

Growing up, my mother was very prone to in the moment, insensitive outbursts that usually involved cutting words very directed at the target (occasionally, my brother (INFP) and I - imagine how hurt the two NF's were! ha!).

ESTP's are normally very people intelligent. My mother comes off as spacey, but if you ge beyond her Se dominant, she really does know exactly what she's doing.

I hope this doesn't paint a bad picture of her, as she's an amazing person and very kind to her family. But it should shed some light on the behavior of an ESTP.

That does sound like my father, but I don't want to jump to a conclusion ( even though I REALLY WANT to COME to a conclusion ).
Some of the F features sound like him, too.
And being his daughter, I know we can tend to mis-judge our parents because we're sometimes too close, as it were, to see clearly.

[INTJMom]

I was reading descriptions of the two on another site, and I think it's most likely that he is ESTP, but I don't want to close the book just yet. I would like to sort of verify it in my own mind first.