ISTPs need relationships too!

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by Grayscale

i wont get into MBTI, but to speak personally, giving up on something is very difficult for me. in the face of difficult emotions like that, i often find myself relying on rationality... if he knew he needed to leave, keeping it short will agree with this.

Ripping the band-aid off, you mean. I can understand that. Why drag it out.

It was particularly upsetting for me because we had a rather big group of mutual friends. We've been involved (the group) for years and years, and it's very tightly knit. I wouldn't be able to step back from them and just go away, but I know he has his reasons. My only intentions were to 1. keep a line open if he wants to reach me, and 2. not push him.

my family moved a lot as a kid. on several occasions, i had to leave everyone i knew behind. it was never hard to muster up a smile and wave to family acquaintances, but when i had to leave behind a close friend, our departure was often along the lines of "cya". this is also what i told my friend of nearly a decade when he moved to another state.

That had to be miserably difficult. I have other friends who were shuffled around a lot growing up and it made them feel as if they could never truly attach to people, at least not without extreme anxiety or anger. I would resent having to say good-bye all the time. Family members are a "born into" situation. Your friends, however, are a personal choice, so it's a severance from something you chose to be open to. That hurts 20 times worse.

Saying good-bye to all my friends in Ireland was a long weepy marathon. It wasn't just me trying to not to cry. It was everybody. I had one friend grab me and refuse to let go. I didn't want her to let go. I wanted to stay. Forever. They meant everything to me.

My Fe was in tatters, knowing we'd never see each other again. Not like this. Everyone around me. We'd scatter to the winds.

i feel as if many of the people i know rely on me to always remain balanced and composed...

How do you handle that? When is "too much" and how do you react? Are you able to say "I'm not God, get off my back?"

if anything, the brevity should indicate how much you meant to him.

I'll remember that.

He's still the only guy I've ever been able to argue with without it getting ugly. At least I have that stunning experience left behind. That's something.

[Winz]

Originally Posted by runvardh

I've seen potential for disaster in any parring for myself so I've stopped worrying about the fact that disaster is possible and worry about the actual problems as they come. (I hurt my head once trying to think of all the possible problems >< )

I only meant it as a passing comment. Obviously anything is possible, including great success

But I guess that makes what I said kinda redundant. oh well

[Grayscale]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

Not like this. Everyone around me. We'd scatter to the winds.

How do you handle that? When is "too much" and how do you react? Are you able to say "I'm not God, get off my back?"

He's still the only guy I've ever been able to argue with without it getting ugly. At least I have that stunning experience left behind. That's something.

i dunno, just never felt i had the luxury of letting others see whatever internal conflict i might be experiencing. i dont think i could push them away, it's something they need.

i might be projecting, but i probably would have done the same thing. easier to just swallow your pain and let others get over you, i figure people will never understand the sacrifice of being the bigger man anyways.

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by Grayscale

i dunno, just never felt i had the luxury of letting others see whatever internal conflict i might be experiencing.

It disappoints me that you see the validity of your own emotional responses/needs as a "luxury". By disappoint, I mean it saddens me for you. When did you start remotely viewing your feelings? When did they get slotted into the "unnecessary to health and survival" pile?

I know what that's like first hand. I have no idea why I had to be perfect (when perfection is an impossibility), when it became NOT OK for me to cry or be angry or express frustration, how I was designated to be Crisis Management when the fur inevitably hit the fan. But it happened. And I paid the price physically. I felt it was my duty to "be strong" all the time. I was never allowed to react according to my nature, even when all hell was breaking loose. It took me years to behead that Hydra. It's an unkindness to be tamped down.

I recall my deep-seated frustration finally getting the better of me one day. Surge of horrible black anger, then I found myself on my knees on the floor with my head down because my heart was pounding and skipping so hard. I scared the immortal daylights out of my father. That's one of the first times I realized that things had to change.

i dont think i could push them away, it's something they need.

Maybe they do need your strength, Gray, but not relentlessly at your expense. No human relationship is always 50-50, (I should know, I've been scraped off the ceiling more times than I can count), but you shouldn't be running on empty simply because the people around you can't put their feet down and find the bottom of the water. You aren't a flotation device.

Support is one thing - life support is another.

i might be projecting, but i probably would have done the same thing. easier to just swallow your pain and let others get over you, i figure people will never understand the sacrifice of being the bigger man anyways.

I detect cynicism - easier to be that way? Hurts less?

Could it mean, perhaps, they will never understand how difficult it is for *you* to step away? The Rock of Gibraltar can't have feelings. He won't mind.

For a long time, it was me, under-reacting, taking the hits, standing up until I cracked. One human being is not meant to be the sole load-bearing wall of the entire house.

[millerm277]

Maybe they do need your strength, Gray, but not relentlessly at your expense. No human relationship is always 50-50, (I should know, I've been scraped off the ceiling more times than I can count), but you shouldn't be running on empty simply because the people around you can't put their feet down and find the bottom of the water. You aren't a flotation device.

I personally feel the same way as Grayscale (or at least agree with what he's said so far), in that people seem to rely on me and need me to stay on track.....but, it is nice to be able to help people when they're having problems. Does that get taken advantage of sometimes? Probably. Overall though...it's something that in spite of causing a bit of stress/trouble, tends to leave me with a good feeling in the end. Yes, I didn't really pick for people to come to me when they're having problems or need help....but that doesn't mean it's a role I resent.

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by millerm277

I personally feel the same way as Grayscale (or at least agree with what he's said so far), in that people seem to rely on me and need me to stay on track.....but, it is nice to be able to help people when they're having problems. Does that get taken advantage of sometimes? Probably. Overall though...it's something that in spite of causing a bit of stress/trouble, tends to leave me with a good feeling in the end. Yes, I didn't really pick for people to come to me when they're having problems or need help....but that doesn't mean it's a role I resent.

I'm glad That's the way it should be. I think Gray sounds a bit pressured though. Not the overall mindset at question, just the expression of more than a transient sense of stress or annoyance.

But I'm very glad to hear your humanitarian bent. You have a positive outlook that would be good for *most* people.

[oasispaw]

Originally Posted by pardo

Sounds pretty extreme to me. That behaviour would upset anyone but a saint...
Anyway, couples should be together for the sake of being together, but personal activities should stay personal :o
I know that some people don't see things this way and try to involve their partners in their hobbies. But I'm not sure if their partners, then, get involved out of genuine interest or simply because they want to please the other-_-
Anyway, as IxTP I value my hobbies also because they are things I can do by myself! I've never invited people to "watch" (unless they manifested the intention first, as it happens occasionally when I get my hands on some new item of interest to them).

yeah, it was pretty extreme. i totally agree that personal activities should stay personal. i understand trying to include/involve a partner as well, because being in a relationship means sharing too. but the particular situation that i described amounted to neither. i think he was partly selfish and partly didn't know what to do with me. i didn't express my annoyance at first but when i did, he was not receptive. he was a hesitant guy who wouldn't commit to anything except for drunkenly agreeing to start a band, with other drunk people, ha!

i do like pursuing my own hobbies and don't mind if my partner takes time to do the same. that might be one reason why my current relationship with an intp is working out so well.

[BlackCat]

My dad is an ISTP. With the whole IXXP factor going on we both live our lives the same way, but our processes as mentioned before are very, very different. But the fact that we live the same way makes it a great relationship. If you share common interests a relationship can always work keep in mind... and sharing the same lifestyle would just make that even better. It always seems like my dad and I can help each other with our problems in life no problem.

[Grayscale]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

Maybe they do need your strength, Gray, but not relentlessly at your expense. No human relationship is always 50-50, (I should know, I've been scraped off the ceiling more times than I can count), but you shouldn't be running on empty simply because the people around you can't put their feet down and find the bottom of the water. You aren't a flotation device.

...

Could it mean, perhaps, they will never understand how difficult it is for *you* to step away? The Rock of Gibraltar can't have feelings. He won't mind.

although i appreciate the intention, i dont have a syndrome of self patronization, i represent in the lives of those around me what i want to and have chosen to represent, and i think relationships require complimentary give and take, not necessary the exact same being given and received.

i think i am built for a certain role, it is not that i only rarely or never receive the same in return (i rarely or never need that, after all) but the relationship can still be unfair despite the fact that i consider my needs to be much simpler.

people do not listen. i dont wish to extract some service, material, or even emotion from others, i dont need others to jump through hoops as if the fact that i spend time with them doesnt imply that i already like who they are. yet regardless of whatever excellence i can muster in rational creativity, emotional stability, or whatever other quality others find attractive of me, it is rare for me to be met with the level of trust and understanding that is not only required for relationships i am in to function smoothly, but that i desire in return. instead what i am given is projections...

if there is anything frustrating, it is not that i am often the one that ends up carrying the people around me, it is that after i put myself up to the standard of person that i think the people i care about deserve, i am never returned with the level of trust i would have if they recognized that fully. in fact, it's not even for my own selfish wants that it frustrates me, but because it's how they must relate to me for our relationship to attain a state of balance.

my friend makes a point to remind me about a few bucks of food i borrowed a day before, despite the fact that i not only remember, but i fully intend to pay him back as soon as i can get some change, and that i have written it down in my notes so as not to forget, and that he owes me several thousand dollars that ive loaned him for nearly a year so he could furnish his apartment. my parents complain that i dont visit or call them enough, make threats about our relationship ending because ive "made it clear i want nothing to do with them", yet i was in a car nearly 9 hours in snow and ice to visit them on christmas, i make a point to fix their computer and move heavy things when i visit because they cant, and ive been introverted and individualistic my entire life and they have not yet met that fact with understanding or the unconditional love that i have to practice every time they spit in my face like that. this is not a pattern limited to these specific examples, either

when i try to explain myself or what i think, they do not pay attention or seem to take it into any sort of consideration whatsoever. the fact that this sort of thing seems to happen over and over, they never learn better. instead of the substance i desire in return, for the sake of our relationship and their well being within it most of all, i am left feeling helpless trying to deal with projections of issues that are most often none of my own.

[poki]

Me(ISTP) and my wife(ENFJ) were going through problems recently. It kinda sounds similiar. In my nature I will go above and beyond what is expected of doing things for others and not ask for much in return, generally dont ask for anything in return. I will "Baby" and do anything for those I love, even if it means being a flotation device. All I simply ask for is to not be criticized, not be put down, and to be accepted for who I am. Do not try and change me.

My wife likes to criticize me when I do something she doesnt like. When I do something she doesnt like she criticizes me hoping I will change, I will back up my actions using something she does that I think is similiar to what I did, I like to use real life examples to supprt myself(Se side). What I am trying to do is say that I gave you that freedom, why are you taking freedom away from me, then she thinks "I didnt know you felt that way when I did that" assuming that I feel about what she did is the same as how she feels about what I did. In her eyes, I just turned this whole thing on her and she feels blind sided that I felt that way. She projects how she would feel onto me. All I was trying to do was say I let you do that why cant you let me.