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  1. #1
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Default Identity Relationships (ever been in one? what was it like?)

    Socionics postulates that the ideal relationship is one of duality--opposite preference in all functions except the j/p axis (which must match). ENFj and ISTj, for example, are duals.

    Many believe, however, that identity relationships are "second best" of our available choices in Socionics theory. Here, for example: Relations between Psychological ("personality") Types

    Thus, my question to the forum. Whom among us has been in an identity relationship? What was it like? What were its advantages? What were its disadvantages? If this relationship failed, why?

    I ask for this reason. It appears that it is extremely difficult for an ENFj to find, identify, recognize, and fall in love with its dual. Take a look at the following chart:



    http://socionic.info/pdf/couples.pdf

    As you can see from this study's results, EIE ( , in teal) and LSI ( , in orange) appear to have the hardest time of all the Sociotypes in finding and uniting with their duals. As such, wouldn't an identity relationship be a good option? I'd like to hear from those who have experienced an identity relationship, and not just EIEs and LSIs.

    Thoughts?
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.

  2. #2
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    @Kheledon

    In other words the identity relationship is the same type as you? If that's the case then no.

    Never been in a duality relationship but on the face of it I don't see how an ISFp would like my type in theory.

    Most significant relationships I've had were with ESFp, INFp, INFj.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieNinjaPirate View Post
    @Kheledon

    In other words the identity relationship is the same type as you?
    Yes. An identity relationship is one composed of two people of the exact same Sociotype (i.e. ENTp and ENTp in your case). It appears that, for all of us, it's difficult to recognize and "fall in love" with one's dual because one's dual is so very different. All the same, duality relationships do seem to offer the best chance that people have to form lasting, loving, and well-functioning relationships. That's why chemistry needs to come first. It appears that one must be attracted to (voice, appearance, smell, and all other S data) one's dual in order to be able to "fall in love," and that experience of "falling in love" is, actually, your brain telling you in the strongest possible way, that the object of your affection would make a good match for you. Falling in love is a horrifying, mystical, foreign, and bizarre experience ... because it's very rare and dangerous (being in love makes one very vulnerable to emotional injury).

    As such, I postulate that one must really "fall in love" in order to connect with one's dual, and, having asked a number of people about this, it seems quite rare for people to "fall in love." That may be because it's quite rare to find someone to whom one is (a) physically attracted and (b) a good fit in terms of compatible brain wiring.
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.

  4. #4
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    All the same, duality relationships do seem to offer the best chance that people have to form lasting, loving, and well-functioning relationships.
    Why?


    @Kheledon you explained falling in love but not why a duality relationship offers the best chance for success.

    I'm open minded and I'm really trying to figure out how an ISFp, in theory, could compliment my type. I find that type, in general, rather boring and I'm sure they find us equally undesirable. I agree with the physical chemistry but that usually settles down after 4 to 6 months and what you're mainly left with is the person and their personality. In fact one of the only types I've had pretty much zero chemistry with was ISFp (even though there was physical attraction as soon as we started talking communication was a bit difficult). Is it possible socionics has a poor duality theory?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieNinjaPirate View Post
    Why?


    @Kheledon you explained falling in love but not why a duality relationship offers the best chance for success.

    I'm open minded and I'm really trying to figure out how an ISFp, in theory, could compliment my type. I find that type, in general, rather boring and I'm sure they find us equally undesirable. I agree with the physical chemistry but that usually settles down after 4 to 6 months and what you're mainly left with is the person and their personality. In fact one of the only types I've had pretty much zero chemistry with was ISFp (even though there was physical attraction as soon as we started talking communication was a bit difficult). Is it possible socionics has a poor duality theory?
    There's no doubt that debate continues in Socionics theory regarding the likelihood and value of duality, but the statistics don't lie. Just look at the chart in the OP, and you'll see that a statistically significant number of lasting, loving relationships are duality relationships. The link under the graph in the OP also shows that a whopping 64% of lasting, loving relationships are among members of the same quadrant, and that over 60% of those same-quadrant relationships are duality relationships.

    Data here: http://socionic.info/pdf/couples.pdf
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.

  6. #6
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    There's no doubt that debate continues in Socionics theory regarding the likelihood and value of duality, but the statistics don't lie. Just look at the chart in the OP, and you'll see that a statistically significant number of lasting, loving relationships are duality relationships. The link under the graph in the OP also shows that a whopping 64% of lasting, loving relationships are among members of the same quadrant, and that over 60% of those same-quadrant relationships are duality relationships.

    Data here: http://socionic.info/pdf/couples.pdf
    Right, it's certainly compelling and I like how there's at least some hard data for this. What are you theories on why duality relationships tend to work out so well? I have some guesses but I'd like to hear your take.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protege View Post
    I was never in a romantic relationship with an ISTj... but I have had an intense platonic friendship with one for a few years.
    This confirms the data shown above. EIE (you) and LSI (him) have the hardest time of all Sociotypes in terms of their "falling in love." That said, he may very well be the perfect mate for you.

    Edited to add: Still--no chemistry = no "falling in love" = little or no chance of "hooking up" with one's dual. If there's no mutual attraction, there's no point in trying.

    Second edit: @Protege The words "intense" and "Platonic" seem contradictory to me. Perhaps you may want to be a little more assertive with this person if you are, in fact, attracted to him.
    Last edited by Kheledon; 04-28-2016 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Needed to add the final caveat.
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    This confirms the data shown above. EIE (you) and LSI (him) have the hardest time of all Sociotypes in terms of their "falling in love." That said, he may very well be the perfect mate for you.
    That was never the purpose of this particular friendship... I was just trying to illustrate the dynamics of a close friendship between my dual and I.
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  9. #9
    Bummer geedoenfj's Avatar
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    Interesting, I've never been in a relationship with an ISTJ before and never known many of them properly, but I hate when someone is always referring to the "rules" I don't like when people make limitations on my behavior based on their book of "rules" and sometimes these rules are just unfair in my opinion, but the ISTJs that I know are very nice people and helpful when you get to talk to them
    Work for a cause not for Applause
    Live to express not to Impress



    6w7 > 1w2 > 4w3

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  10. #10
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geedoenfj View Post
    Interesting, I've never been in a relationship with an ISTJ before and never known many of them properly, but I hate when someone is always referring to the "rules" I don't like when people make limitations on my behavior based on their book of "rules" and sometimes these rules are just unfair in my opinion, but the ISTJs that I know are very nice people and helpful when you get to talk to them
    I respect your natural and reasonable suspicion of "rules" when it comes to the most important things that people do, i.e. romantic relationships, but I would strongly encourage you to consider Socionics (a very new and radical theory for explaining the naturally-occurring relationship patterns between people) as not a "rule" but as a statistically-significant predictor of one's best chance of finding what we all need most out of life ...

    LOVE!
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.

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