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  1. #1
    Senior Member Retmeishka's Avatar
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    Default Yielding/Obstinate dichotomy seems to be real; some observations from my own life

    I feel like if only I were a yielding type, I'd be super-rich right now. A yielding type is able to change and sacrifice their interests, and I figured out how this applies to me.

    I read 'The Millionaire Fastlane' last year. It's actually a very good book. But I knew that I would not be able to do most of the things recommended in the book, and I had no way to verbalize it until I started learning about yielding versus obstinate.

    I am obstinate (SLI/ISTP). And it does describe me accurately. I don't freak out if somebody intrudes into my physical territory or my physical belongings - I might not really be happy about it, but I don't have a stroke over it. However, I know certain other people who I have had a conflict with recently, who is a yielding type, and she DID 'have a stroke' over something which I perceived as a trivial and harmless minor violation of her physical space. My cat peed in her litter box and it smelled bad - she responded by yelling for me to come downstairs, telling me that he 'sprayed' someplace when he didn't - he never sprays, ever, he just pees the normal way - and then strongly suggesting that I get him neutered, which I will not do. I fixed the problem instantly by using the scoop to cover up the pee in the litter box - problem solved.

    Most of my conflicts with her are over stuff like that. Her cat, meanwhile, IS NEUTERED. And yet, if I leave my door open, he will sometimes come upstairs and pee ON MY FLOOR, not even in a litter box - it's hardwood, so it's easy to wipe it off the floor. Did I freak out and yell about it? Nope, not a word from me. I wasn't thrilled, but I also wasn't having a massive freakout session or threatening to harm her cat. It's just an effing floor (material resource - no big deal).

    Sorry, that incident was still fresh in my mind from a day or two ago.

    Anyway, if I could be a yielding/compliant type, I wouldn't care so much about my interests, and this has always held me back. The reason why I can't become super-rich is because I can't force myself to care about things that I don't care about (interests). If only I could, I'd be able to press the magic button to acquire infinite wealth!

    For example, I have no interest in, say, producing horrible useless garbage and getting rich by selling it. But other people have no qualms about becoming multimillionaires by selling tons and tons of awful garbage that they themselves cannot possibly be all that interested in. You do whatever the marketplace demands. If the marketplace is willing to buy horrible garbage, then sell them tons and tons of it, and get rich! You don't HAVE to be interested in producing, I dunno, something boring. You know, cardboard boxes or something. Somebody somewhere is a carboard-box-making millionaire, because they don't care about the fact that making cardboard boxes isn't interesting. Who cares about my interests, I'll spend all my time doing something that's really boring, and learning about the cardboard box manufacturing industry, because that's where the money is! That's just an example. This happens to me almost no matter what industry I try to imagine myself going into. It's always some sort of conflict of interests for me.

    I was starting to make this into a blog, but then decided maybe it was postable on the forum, so I won't go on and on forever. I'm just saying, for some reason, the obstinate/compliant (or yielding, or whatever) dichotomy really does seem to exist, and I've seen it in all the types that they say it's in. Compliant types will say 'How dare you lay a finger on my personal belongings,' but yet they don't mind learning about some topic which, originally, was boring to them, but somebody else demands it, and they can become skillful at producing products in the marketplace that they themselves don't necessarily like or want, because other people want them.

    My feelings about this are a sort of envy and disgust. It's like 'selling out.' You didn't hold on to the things that mattered to you, forever and ever from the moment you were born? You changed your interests and went along with someone else's interests? But what about what you originally wanted? I view that as 'selling out,' betraying something you originally believed in, but it's not that simple. I just can't imagine interests being something negotiable, and yet, I wish I could - I'd be able to get a job ANYWHERE doing things I don't like to do, and I could start my own business doing something I hate, selling something I hate, producing things that are boring and garbage - but hey, I'd be rich!

    ('Not being rich' is an issue for me right now, and I am job hunting.)

    But I totally get the idea of interests being sacred and untouchable, not something you can negotiate. If I'm a cartoonist, but I'm not interested in drawing bears, then I find it extremely difficult to force myself to draw cartoon bears for somebody just because somebody else liked it (this actually happened to me when I was a teenager - a girl in my school asked if I could draw some bears in a little scenario for her, and I tried, but I wasn't happy with it). If I was getting paid to draw bears, when I didn't particularly enjoy drawing bears (I was a dogs-and-dragons-and-weirdly-dressed-ladies type of cartoonist, apparently), I would have felt constantly miserable and would have been secretly waiting for the day when I could draw whatever I wanted to draw again (holding on to original interests over time).
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  2. #2
    friendly and accessible boomslang's Avatar
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    Most of the most annoying internet arguers are obstinate types. The kinds that will fight tooth and nail to win and drag on arguments page after page. These types do seem to be the most active on the internet as well (apart from LSIs).

    In descending order of how annoying they are to me:

    IEE-LII-SLI-LSI-EIE-ILI

  3. #3

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    The obstinate/yielding dichotomy is quite false. The simple attitude to strike is to allow others to add to the pool of meaning while not closing yourself of either. Simple but difficult.

    The story being told...the meaning being created... is a group effort. We can listen to the rest of the story while still telling ours.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #4
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
    Most of the most annoying internet arguers are obstinate types. The kinds that will fight tooth and nail to win and drag on arguments page after page. These types do seem to be the most active on the internet as well (apart from LSIs).

    In descending order of how annoying they are to me:

    IEE-LII-SLI-LSI-EIE-ILI
    I'm an LII in socionics, which would be considered an obstinate type. I don't really enjoy online arguments that much. Discussion yes, but I don't see a need to drag them on page after page if they're not going anywhere. Basically, I put my two cents in, politely disagree as needed and then I'm on to some other thread.

    I'm also not sure how valid this dichotomy is though.
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  5. #5
    friendly and accessible boomslang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I'm an LII in socionics, which would be considered an obstinate type. I don't really enjoy online arguments that much. Discussion yes, but I don't see a need to drag them on page after page if they're not going anywhere. Basically, I put my two cents in, politely disagree as needed and then I'm on to some other thread.

    I'm also not sure how valid this dichotomy is though.
    To be fair, that is more indicative of a yielding type. Is it possible that you might be a ExTx or IxFx type?

  6. #6
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retmeishka View Post
    My feelings about this are a sort of envy and disgust.
    That much is clear from your post, for sure.

    Your definitions of the words are a little different than I would use, I'd say to get the things we want out of life we need to balance obstinate and yielding.
    Be able to adapt to circumstances, understand where others are coming, and compromise, but also hold to our guns and follow through on what we fell in love with in the first place.

    Based on your definitions as I understand them, I don't think it's as all-or-nothing as you make it out to be. A person needs to find some sort of area where the things they like (and are good at) also have some value to others, in order to survive in this world. I don't really believe in the "find something you enjoy doing and you'll never work a day in your life" bullshit... work is work, even if it's something you love, it's still work, and you still have to do it sometimes when you don't want to, and any time you work with other people involved you have to do some things they want you to do that you don't necessarily want to do. If a person cannot compromise working with other people and isn't able to do something that someone will pay them to do (whatever that may be) then yes, they will have a difficult time surviving in society. Unless you miraculously own a big chunk of land and possess a ton of survival skills, you're kind of stuck with providing a useful service to society, engaging in a marketable skill, and interacting with human beings. But even still, living out there off the grid away from everyone who bugs you, if you get sick or injured or need something outside your routine, you would need at least some money to pay for that stuff.

    Unfortunate realities of life.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  7. #7
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
    To be fair, that is more indicative of a yielding type. Is it possible that you might be a ExTx or IxFx type?
    I'm pretty confident I'm an LII but I do periodically reconsider other types. Particularly ILE (ENTp) and EII (INFj). I do think I have Ne as either the 1st or 2nd function.
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