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  1. #11
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Glad I'm not the only one who has observed the ESFJ in it's true form.

  2. #12
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
    She always has some critical comments to make on every jobs that I have. The only job that she doesn't mind me working is 9-to-5 office cubicle jobs, but I get depression (diagnosed by psychiatrist too) from working those type of office cubicle jobs, seems like my ESFJ mum cares more about her pride than my health and well-being. My ESFJ mum also often criticised my personality, the way I smile, the way I talk, the clothes I buy etc. It's like no matter what I do, everything about me is just so wrong in her eyes. And I don't think it's her Fe that makes her this way, I think it's the Fe and Si combination that makes her this way.
    It seems your mum and mine are not some healthy ESFJ !!!

    I used to "fight" with my mum, as she always had to criticise someone, make negative comments, ONLY based on her need for perfection and whatever.
    She is not able to (at least TRY to) see the world objectively.
    Fortunately I have a strong, curious, optimistic and rebellious personality !
    Even if she behaved the way you describe, I know that she sometimes tries her best. She is not "a bad mother".
    All those stuffs are about EGO. And to me the EGO needs to be educated, not fed with.
    Nonetheless, you are not forced to accept the way her pride influences your relationship, just because she is your mother !
    That is my point of view on daughter/son-mother/dad relationship, but this is another subject which has nothing to do with supervising.

    Criticizing the way a person smiles, talks, walks, gets dressed means to me a lack of depth, a lack of tolerance, a close mind.
    I can only ignore such persons or, at my best, have conflicts with them.
    However, I learnt conflicts with them are totally useless, as the way they look at the world seems normal to them (Like all "strong-pejorative sense-EGOs")
    Fortunately, the ESFJ in my family has evolved thanks to love (she is now with a very smart and patient husband), which seems so important to her.
    She is less critical, at least with people she thinks she loves.

    Focusing on YOUR own well-being, HEALTH, strength, and what really matters TO YOU is without a doubt the best thing to do.
    It is never good to have a critical person around you, mainly about what THEY think is right FOR YOU !
    Now think about that : Do their own ideas about your apparence matters TO YOU ? No ?
    If NO, they'll realise you don't give a shit about their opinions, and will probably stop.

    A good critical mind is always able to pass some constructive and objective clear messages on to you.
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
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  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    My main supervisor, until recently, was an ENFJ. We got along really well for the most part, except for two issues:

    1) She was bad at giving me specific instructions, even though I need specific instructions, so a lot of the time it felt like pulling teeth whenever she assigned me anything.

    2) She made things really personal, really quickly, which made me uncomfortable. Extra discomfort came from the seemingly random personal lines that she NEVER wanted to cross (because it wasn't "work-appropriate"), and her very emotional reactions if I'd accidentally cross one, during a personal conversation, back when I tried to match her tone. In the end, I stopped trying to match her tone, which probably disappointed her, but made me a much happier employee.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  4. #14
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    I apologise in advance to the LSEs, because you are my supervisee. My dad is an LSE, and these are the problem I have with him:

    -Doesn't have a clue how to solve problems. Screws everything up, and then acts as if it's impossible to know that actions have consequences.
    -Never seems to think for himself. He just seems to agree with the ideas of whomever he trusts the most. By extension, he is incredibly biased.
    -Doesn't have a clue how humans think or function.
    MBTI: INTJ
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  5. #15
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annihilation View Post
    I apologise in advance to the LSEs, because you are my supervisee. My dad is an LSE, and these are the problem I have with him:

    -Doesn't have a clue how to solve problems. Screws everything up, and then acts as if it's impossible to know that actions have consequences.
    -Never seems to think for himself. He just seems to agree with the ideas of whomever he trusts the most. By extension, he is incredibly biased.
    -Doesn't have a clue how humans think or function.


    Only part of that that seems type-related is the bolded. Ni-blindness is definitely a thing with LSEs, and sometimes I have a hard time seeing the approaching cliff as well.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    Likes sculpting liked this post

  6. #16
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Favorite phrase I run into on Typology Central:

    "My mom is an ESFJ and-"
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so

    Likes EJCC, Showbread, Noll liked this post

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post


    Only part of that that seems type-related is the bolded. Ni-blindness is definitely a thing with LSEs, and sometimes I have a hard time seeing the approaching cliff as well.
    Would you like to get into a debate with your supervisor? Fair warning, supervision is painful. My sister is the supervisee of my dad, and she often talks about how he says nasty things to her... that aren't remotely nasty. One thing that is very plain is that supervisees never correctly interpret their supervisor (worse, ILIs can be painstakingly oblivious to how they come across, so most people end up misinterpreting us).

    It is type related. It is a subjective interpretation of what LSEs lack. It's not accurate to you because you use a completely different method of perception, but we ILIs completely ignore your methods of perception, so when we observe you, you seem blind and oblivious.
    MBTI: INTJ
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  8. #18
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annihilation View Post
    Would you like to get into a debate with your supervisor? Fair warning, supervision is painful. My sister is the supervisee of my dad, and she often talks about how he says nasty things to her... that aren't remotely nasty. One thing that is very plain is that supervisees never correctly interpret their supervisor (worse, ILIs can be painstakingly oblivious to how they come across, so most people end up misinterpreting us).
    My philosophy with my supervisors/supervisees is to make sure things are as clear as they can possibly be. So yes, I am always willing to get into tough conversations with my supervisor -- whatever it takes to make sure I do the job well. If that annoys my supervisor from time to time, then so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annihilation View Post
    It is type related. It is a subjective interpretation of what LSEs lack. It's not accurate to you because you use a completely different method of perception, but we ILIs completely ignore your methods of perception, so when we observe you, you seem blind and oblivious.
    So you're saying I can't refute you, because it's your opinion, and your opinion can't be swayed by the facts of the system?

    You stated that among "the problems (you) have with him" are that he "doesn't have a clue how humans think or function". Do you see this as being universal to LSEs? If so, why?


    Edit: I just re-read your original post in more detail. My eyes had gone straight to your initial apology to LSEs, and then to the list -- missing the part that you never made an assertion like the above. Sorry for the miscommunication.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #19
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
    Then I worked as a dental assistant, and she said why I worked in those dirty places.
    Then I worked as a private tutor, and she said this job isn't able to support me financially.
    She always has some critical comments to make on every jobs that I have. The only job that she doesn't mind me working is 9-to-5 office cubicle jobs, but I get depression (diagnosed by psychiatrist too) from working those type of office cubicle jobs, seems like my ESFJ mum cares more about her pride than my health and well-being. My ESFJ mum also often criticised my personality, the way I smile, the way I talk, the clothes I buy etc. It's like no matter what I do, everything about me is just so wrong in her eyes. And I don't think it's her Fe that makes her this way, I think it's the Fe and Si combination that makes her this way.
    Sounds like your mom is just kind of snobby and appearance oriented. While it is a stereotype, not all ESFJs are like this. Also, in a twisted unhealthy sort of way I can see that maybe your mom just wants what she thinks is best for you. Unfortunately she is choosing criticizing the aspects of your life she sees as inadequate as a way of expressing this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Favorite phrase I run into on Typology Central:

    "My mom is an ESFJ and-"
    Hahaha. I feel like everyone sees their mom as ESFJ/2ish. Because they are the types that most often assume the mothering role over people other than their children. Seriously. People call me "mom" all the time.

    This is one of the reasons I have the hardest time typing my mom. I've never known her as anything other than a caretaker.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

    3w2 6w7 1w2
    *Gryffindor*


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    So you're saying I can't refute you, because it's your opinion, and your opinion can't be swayed by the facts of the system?
    What I mean by subjective is that I see it one way, and it's probably not the actual case. For example, several people have called me a judgemental prick when I am not even casting a judgement. The subjective interpretation is not reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Do you see this as being universal to LSEs? If so, why?
    Just to clarify, I did see your edit, but I want to make this clear: Definitely not. I want a bigger sample size of LSEs to understand them better.
    MBTI: INTJ
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