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  1. #1
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    Default MBTI vs socionics functions

    I'll post here instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Well I don't really want to have to formulate an argument right now, cause I'm not that interested in the subject matter, and don't know your intent. So anything I say is going to be off the top of my head.

    But for example there's a difference between objective sensing vs subjective sensing, and you can use that terminology between either system. There's also the part where, you know, the functions are labeled with the same names. Like the MBTI breakdown of an INTP is Ti, Ne, Si, Fe....and Socionics uses those exact same names of functions..Ti, Ne, etc....just maybe not in the same order.
    My intent is simply being interested in why you think that way.

    If the systems used very different names for functions, would that help in seeing where the differences are?

  2. #2
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    I'll post here instead.



    My intent is simply being interested in why you think that way.

    If the systems used very different names for functions, would that help in seeing where the differences are?

    I really don't feel like explaining myself. I apologize, but that's why I said I'm agreeing to disagree.

    If at a later time, I feel like venturing down this path some more, I will come back to this thread. I just feel like you've already determined how my opinion looks already (black and white) and there's really no point in furthering discussion about this right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I really don't feel like explaining myself. I apologize, but that's why I said I'm agreeing to disagree.

    If at a later time, I feel like venturing down this path some more, I will come back to this thread. I just feel like you've already determined how my opinion looks already (black and white) and there's really no point in furthering discussion about this right now.
    If I had determined what your opinion was, I would not have asked about it.

    I really dislike such assumptions.

    Anyway, sure feel free to come back to this whenever you feel like it.

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    The main difference most people miss about the two systems is that the functions in MBTI are explained in such a way that they both represent the function itself and also its position. Socionics functions are only explained in and of themselves, and one of the 8 the function placement possibilities will determine what that particular one actually does for a person. It's a pretty big difference, but it's one you have to see for yourself I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    The main difference most people miss about the two systems is that the functions in MBTI are explained in such a way that they both represent the function itself and also its position.
    Standard MBTI doesn't really do that. Some authors like Lenore Thomson do talk about function position too.


    Socionics functions are only explained in and of themselves, and one of the 8 the function placement possibilities will determine what that particular one actually does for a person.
    Actually, on wikisocion, they're explained in terms of position too. So, I don't see the difference...

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Standard MBTI doesn't really do that. Some authors like Lenore Thomson do talk about function position too.
    I like her take on right/left brain alternatives and double agents, unfortunately, she doesn't back it up with any solid data or evidence. Had she done so, perhaps her ideas might be more widely accepted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I like her take on right/left brain alternatives and double agents, unfortunately, she doesn't back it up with any solid data or evidence. Had she done so, perhaps her ideas might be more widely accepted.
    Well I guess it's not easy to back up any of this stuff with evidence at this point.

    Btw, the left/right brain stuff is a messed up theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Well I guess it's not easy to back up any of this stuff with evidence at this point.

    Btw, the left/right brain stuff is a messed up theory.
    I find it interesting. I don't know if I buy it though.

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    The Socionics descriptions of the functions has more to do with their placement than their actual performance as in JCF, and is thus more simplified and glossed over really in favor of the positioned descriptions rather than the actual definitions of the functions. The detailed information really seems to be in how each function plays its role in an individual, the application of the function, rather than how the function itself works in theory, as seen with ambiguous titles for functions such as Ni being internal dynamics of fields and Ti being external statics of fields .

    Personally, I believe that the functions of JCF and Socionics are one in the same, but utilized and defined differently due to the focus of each system. JCF defines the function according to JCF's actual use, to determine how an individual thinks, works, and interprets, whereas Socionics defines functions according to Socionics's actual use, to discern how an individual appears, his behavior and mannerisms, and his "abilities". This is also why I believe that there is, in fact, a direct correlation between MBTI types and Socionics types via the functions, the problem lies in the fact that both systems focus on different aspects of the functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Socionics descriptions of the functions has more to do with their placement than their actual performance as in JCF, and is thus more simplified and glossed over really in favor of the positioned descriptions rather than the actual definitions of the functions. The detailed information really seems to be in how each function plays its role in an individual, the application of the function, rather than how the function itself works in theory, as seen with ambiguous titles for functions such as Ni being internal dynamics of fields and Ti being external statics of fields .
    What is ambiguous about those titles in your opinion?


    Personally, I believe that the functions of JCF and Socionics are one in the same, but utilized and defined differently due to the focus of each system. JCF defines the function according to JCF's actual use, to determine how an individual thinks, works, and interprets, whereas Socionics defines functions according to Socionics's actual use, to discern how an individual appears, his behavior and mannerisms, and his "abilities". This is also why I believe that there is, in fact, a direct correlation between MBTI types and Socionics types via the functions, the problem lies in the fact that both systems focus on different aspects of the functions.
    Actually, Socionics also defines functions according to how the individual processes information.

    As for your assuming a direct correlation in such a fashion, it requires also the assumption that ways of thinking will determine behaviour and mannerism and abilities in such a direct way. I think this is too much to ask for, unless there is some evidence for it.

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