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  1. #111
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    I was asking about you specifically, not generic MBTI INFJ. Or when you said "MBTI INFJ" here, were you referring to yourself?
    Yeah, I am using myself as the reference material...assuming that I am really an INFJ... The fit and don't fit comparison I made is in reference to myself...

  2. #112
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I wasn't referring to Socionics in my post.

    Actually, Myers pointed out that external influences play a dramatic role. A kid can have his/her preferences, but if they are not supported within the family, or extenuating circumstances are present, extra focus on the outer world versus the inner world can occur. Or vice versa. Take an example where a kid is raised in an alcoholic home. There could easily be a demand for the kid to turn from inner values to outer values to keep the peace as well as be forced to engage in care-taking that may not have come naturally to them, otherwise. No unusual combination would surprise me in that situation. Furthermore, just because a combination may deviate from what one may expect does not make one unhealthy. There's been a lot of that kind of talk in this forum over the years and it makes little sense. Different =/= unhealthy. I don't really subscribe to the idea of rigid structures or ordering of function-attitudes. I'm well aware of the models and how they operate, but it doesn't mean I have to salute them or strictly abide by every little nuance.



    The tertiary is food for another thread. People keep forgetting that the attitude of the tertiary has been up for grabs for decades. That means someone can be:

    E
    I
    I
    I

    I
    E
    E
    E


    There are no absolutes regarding the tertiary. Some have theorized that the tertiary is so flexible that one can "toggle" it at will. Again, be open to possibilities.
    What I'm wondering about this, and the function analysis tool it was intended for, was to get the current state of the person and then get them to change from E-I-I-I or I-E-E-E. (considered unhealthy, some kind of loop) and go E-I-E-I or I-E-I-E. The structure blocks of socionics are always E-I or I-E.

    Is your argument that the person in the loop, doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhealthy? But then your argument later is about the rigid structure of socionics not catering for a "unhealthy"/healthy person.

  3. #113
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    ...Btw why were you asking about my subtype?
    I'm asking because I'm trying to use socionics' subtype to understand why you feel you need to be ISTP in MBTI. SLE-ESTp-Ti could perhaps make you feel like an introverted extraverted attitude. That would also suite the e-8. Just thinking out loud. Hence why we have this big old, socionics isn't MBTI argument. Socionics have more boxes to play with and we can fine grain it.

  4. #114
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Obviously due to the nature of the initial discussion, it is practically impossible to provide any sort of evidence unless each individual in perhaps the entire world was documented and tested [...]
    INTJs use fake Fe.
    Ni is usually right.
    Ed shouts at parrots in his underwear.
    Germans smell like bubble gum.

    Claims or speculation?

    IRL, I speculate all the time and I assure you, when I speculate it never sounds like a claim. "How about" or "What if?" or "Imagine" "Maybe it works like . . ." or even "I think what could be . . ." sound distinctly different than a black and white claim. If you think I'm after evidence, then you have missed the point of my post (just as someone else did for years in this forum). Speculate all day long, be my guest.

    But be aware of how your post reads.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    What I'm wondering about this, and the function analysis tool it was intended for, was to get the current state of the person and then get them to change from E-I-I-I or I-E-E-E. (considered unhealthy, some kind of loop) and go E-I-E-I or I-E-I-E. The structure blocks of socionics are always E-I or I-E.

    Is your argument that the person in the loop, doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhealthy? But then your argument later is about the rigid structure of socionics not catering for a "unhealthy"/healthy person.
    Look at this old post of mine:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post

    ENTJ


    Jung

    Te
    Ni
    Si
    Fi

    Myers

    Te
    Ni
    Si
    Fi

    Beebe

    Te
    Ni
    Se
    Fi

    Berens

    Te
    Ni
    Se
    Fi

    Source: Understanding and Applying Jung's Cognitive Processes. Linda Berens. (p.54)
    What that post is showing is not degrees of "health," "loops" or anything negative (or positive), it is merely showing the direction those people theorized the functions pointed. (I or E.)

  6. #116
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Additional reading:

    Inconvenient Observations: Questions on the Role and Attitude of the Third Function - Roger Pearman

    http://www.qualifying.org/talent-man...e-function.php

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Yeah, I am using myself as the reference material...assuming that I am really an INFJ... The fit and don't fit comparison I made is in reference to myself...
    Oh okay, that sounds pretty EII-ish. How about the socionics functions Ni and Fi, Fe and Ne? Have you read about them at wikisocion?


    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    I'm asking because I'm trying to use socionics' subtype to understand why you feel you need to be ISTP in MBTI. SLE-ESTp-Ti could perhaps make you feel like an introverted extraverted attitude. That would also suite the e-8. Just thinking out loud. Hence why we have this big old, socionics isn't MBTI argument. Socionics have more boxes to play with and we can fine grain it.
    ISTP? Profiles and inferior Fe. (MBTI Fe)

    But yes I'm not very introverted. Not like INxx's, I mean, I'm not so sensitive to stimuli in general.

    As for the socionics type, some people have actually seen me as LSI > SLE, I don't relate to the enneagram 1-ish descriptions of LSI though.

    I do relate quite well to Ti as defined by Augusta, I really like that one here. Otoh, I can relate to Ti as creative function, too.

    I'll post this in my type thread too and if you want to analyse deeper I think it would be more on topic there.

  8. #118
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Oh okay, that sounds pretty EII-ish. How about the socionics functions Ni and Fi, Fe and Ne? Have you read about them at wikisocion?
    No I haven't... Have you?

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    No I haven't... Have you?
    Ni
    Ne
    Fi
    Fe

  10. #120
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    When are these due Ma'am?

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