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The PoLR Thread

Alea_iacta_est

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It's time to flesh out the Socionics sub-forum, and perhaps even work our way to the other functions of Model A so that we can allocate resources to one thread instead of having to scavenge for resources in thirty different places on the internet, so let's begin with the PoLR because it is easy to recognize (I think?).

For those who do not know,

IxTp - PoLR Fe
ExTp - PoLR Fi
INxj - PoLR Se
ENxj - PoLR Si
ESxj - PoLR Ni
ISxj - PoLR Ne
ExFp - PoLR Ti
IxFp - PoLR Te

The PoLR (Point of Least Resistance) is the 4th function for any type, (for example, ILI = Ni - Te - Si - Fe) and is thus in the Super-Ego block, meaning that criticism to this function will be taken especially harshly and that no matter how hard you try and improve it, you will always give up or fail. Some regard this function as a "blind-spot" for each of the types (ILI is blind to social courtesies, SEE is blind to their own contradictions (Expat's description on 16types)).

So, post how you think your PoLR manifests itself in your life, and if you have met your Supervising type, tell us how they hit your PoLR, that way we can pool information together and at the same time have people much more skilled in Socionics than I am tell people that they are typed incorrectly and/or that certain information people have provided is NTR.
 

yeghor

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I was bullied by Se-doms or aux (probably xSTPs) in high school... It wounded my psyche and lowered my self esteem...

I am physically attracted to women high in Se...

I am afraid of heights... High temperatures make me drowsy... Skin in sensitive to sunlight... High doses of Se such as rollercosters and other recreational machinery creates anxiety in me...

Lean muscle ratio is relatively low...

My personal theory is that Se is related to "id" rather than super-ego though...just as a sidenote...


See Post #6
 
Last edited:

Alea_iacta_est

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I was bullied by Se-doms (probably xSTPs) in high school... It wounded my psyche and lowered my self esteem...

I am physically attracted to women high in Se...

I am afraid of heights... High temperatures make me drowsy... Skin in sensitive to sunlight... High doses of Se such as rollercosters and other recreational machinery creates anxiety in me...

Lean muscle ratio is relatively low...

My personal theory is that Se is related to "id" rather than ego though...just as a sidenote...

Assuming you test as IEI (MBTI INFJ), you would be an INFp and Se would be under the super-id and specifically under the DS function (or suggestive).

Apologies, but your personal theory doesn't apply in the construct of Socionics, as in the system every type's first 4 functions are known as the mental functions and are therefore utilized consciously. Therefore, an IEI consciously uses Ni and Fe, while also only engaging in the super-ego block with conscious effort, meaning that your functions of Si and Te are completely dependent on where your attention is focused. The other 4 functions are put in the unconscious category, where there is absolutely no control over these functions when we use them, which for the IEI would be indicative of Se, Ti, Ne, and Fi.

Also, attraction to Se can be indicative of duality and supervision at the same time, as the supervisee often feels attracted to the supervisor, whose strongest point is the quality that is most admired by the supervisee.
 

yeghor

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Assuming you test as IEI (MBTI INFJ), you would be an INFp and Se would be under the super-id and specifically under the DS function (or suggestive).

Apologies, but your personal theory doesn't apply in the construct of Socionics, as in the system every type's first 4 functions are known as the mental functions and are therefore utilized consciously. Therefore, an IEI consciously uses Ni and Fe, while also only engaging in the super-ego block with conscious effort, meaning that your functions of Si and Te are completely dependent on where your attention is focused. The other 4 functions are put in the unconscious category, where there is absolutely no control over these functions when we use them, which for the IEI would be indicative of Se, Ti, Ne, and Fi.

OK... you already know the thread I mentioned about it so I'll not reiterate it here...

On what do they base the conscious or unconscious nature of accessibility of the functions and a part of them being the super-ego block?...Brain scans or smt?

And what constitutes the id block then?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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OK... you already know the thread I mentioned about it so I'll not reiterate it here...

On what do they base the conscious or unconscious nature of accessibility of the functions and a part of them being the super-ego block?...Brain scans or smt?

And what constitutes the id block then?

I do not know what evidence they base their research on, but that does not mean your theory which also lacks evidence is superior to it.

Primarily it seems that they base it off of the analysis of several individuals inclusive of one type. ILIs, for instance, have to consciously make an effort to appeal to social norms and express emotions, there is no unconscious drive to express emotions for these individuals, and about the same applies to the role function of Si, where they have to consciously make an effort to be detail-oriented, to be physically healthy, etc., and again there is no unconscious drive to do so; therefore, criticism to this area hurts because the individuals are making a conscious effort to buttress these functions and their work is seen as failing, leaving some people to simply give up on improving these areas entirely.

The id block consists of the opposite attitudes of the ego block functions. The IEI, for instance, has Ni-Fe in the Ego block (the lead and creative function) and Ne-Fi in the id block (the ignoring and demonstrative).
 

yeghor

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I do not know what evidence they base their research on, but that does not mean your theory which also lacks evidence is superior to it.

Primarily it seems that they base it off of the analysis of several individuals inclusive of one type. ILIs, for instance, have to consciously make an effort to appeal to social norms and express emotions, there is no unconscious drive to express emotions for these individuals, and about the same applies to the role function of Si, where they have to consciously make an effort to be detail-oriented, to be physically healthy, etc., and again there is no unconscious drive to do so; therefore, criticism to this area hurts because the individuals are making a conscious effort to buttress these functions and their work is seen as failing, leaving some people to simply give up on improving these areas entirely.

The id block consists of the opposite attitudes of the ego block functions. The IEI, for instance, has Ni-Fe in the Ego block (the lead and creative function) and Ne-Fi in the id block (the ignoring and demonstrative).

So MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFp = IEI

(These nomenclature need to be unified in a standard one... It feels like the dihcotomy between metric and imperial systems)

Oh I guess I misunderstood in my earlier reply then... So my socionics type is INFp and my PoLR is Ni Fe Te Si ? And Te-Si form my super ego block in this setup?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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So MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFp = IEI

(These nomenclature need to be unified in a standard one... It feels like the dihcotomy between metric and imperial systems)

Oh I guess I misunderstood in my earlier reply then... So my socionics type is INFp and my PoLR is Ni Fe Te Si ? And Te-Si form my super ego block in this setup?

No. Assuming you are an INFp, your PoLR would be Te. Your Super-Ego block would be Si, Te. (The function order for the mental block is Lead, Creative, Role, PoLR (also known as the Vulnerable function))
 

yeghor

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No. Assuming you are an INFp, your PoLR would be Te. Your Super-Ego block would be Si, Te. (The function order for the mental block is Lead, Creative, Role, PoLR (also known as the Vulnerable function)

Something's funny about the function order wrt MBTI... The function descriptions are the same as those in MBTI aren't they? Then:

So the closest type to MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFp -> and the function order is different as Ni Fe Si Te where:

Ni and Fe are referred to as ego, Si and Te are referred to as super ego... but this super ego has a different purpose than the Freudian super ego I guess...

And also the 5th and 6th functions according to socionics Se and Ti are referred to as super-id (above id?) and the 7th and 8th, Ne and Fi are referred to as id but this is different than Freudian id?

So the conscious functions for MBTI INFJ and socionics INFp are different where only the first 2 are common...

And Path of least resistance (which resides in the superego in this model) for INFp = Te (i.e. the 4th function in this model)...

How does Te affect me... When someone uses Te on me, I get irritated cause I am accustomed to Fe kind of communication... Te communication feels like cold...

Actually I made this thread earlier about Te...you can go thru it once more to see if there's anything of use...

Does the order of functions in socionics model sound true to you though? I don't have any Ti according to that model?
 

yeghor

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And I feel much inferior when it comes to my lack of Se...rather than Te... When angered, I can raise my voice and use Te (rather easily)...
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Something's funny about the function order wrt MBTI... The function descriptions are the same as those in MBTI aren't they? Then:

So the closest type to MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFp -> and the function order is different as Ni Fe Si Te where:

Ni and Fe are referred to as ego, Si and Te are referred to as super ego... but this super ego has a different purpose than the Freudian super ego I guess...

And also the 5th and 6th functions according to socionics Se and Ti are referred to as super-id (above id?) and the 7th and 8th, Ne and Fi are referred to as id but this is different than Freudian id?

So the conscious functions for MBTI INFJ and socionics INFp are different where only the first 2 are common...

And Path of least resistance (which resides in the superego in this model) for INFp = Te (i.e. the 4th function in this model)...

How does Te affect me... When someone uses Te on me, I get irritated cause I am accustomed to Fe kind of communication... Te communication feels like cold...

Actually I made this thread earlier about Te...you can go thru it once more to see if there's anything of use...

Does the order of functions in socionics model sound true to you though? I don't have any Ti according to that model?

The order of the functions is not represented with strength -> weakness EDIT: sequentially.

Ego Block - Strong, Valued, Conscious
Super-Ego Block - Weak, Unvalued, Conscious
Super-Id Block - Weak, Valued, Unconscious
Id Block - Strong, Unvalued, Unconscious

Also, Te would usually be perceived from the standpoint of an individual with Te PoLR as strong and admirable, though in cases where Te Ego types berate the Te PoLR person, they are seen as somewhat cruel and imposing. The point is that types with Te PoLR do not like it when they are criticized for not being objective and realistic, something they try to work on but ultimately fail at.

Usually the imposers would be conflictors while the more admirable ones are supervisors.
 

HongDou

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And I feel much inferior when it comes to my lack of Se...rather than Te... When angered, I can raise my voice and use Te (rather easily)...

:notype:
 

yeghor

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The second row of Model A (functions 3 and 4) is called the Super-Ego block. The individual's free and spontaneous use of the Ego block functions implies limitations on the use of these functions, which are a kind of rejected alternative to the Ego block. Each type tends to believe that his own Super-Ego functions are meant to be used only for the purposes established by the Ego functions; that is, their application is limited to serving the Ego block's interests. When a person's own interests are not sufficiently developed and people around him pressure him to be more competent with his Super-Ego functions, distress and disappointment result. The psyche is not able to channel energy through the Super-Ego functions long enough to achieve lasting results, which leads to disappointment, guilt, and even neuroses if the individual believes that the development of these functions is the measure of his worth as a person.

The Super-Ego functions are the source of much self-consciousness. When among strangers or critical onlookers, people tend to suddenly become aware of the possible inadequacy of their Super-Ego functions and often respond in one of two ways: (1) demonstratively act through these functions to create an illusion of confidence, or (2) demonstratively state their complete incompetency or rejection of these areas.

The Super-Ego functions are in the mental ring and thus describe things that the individual tries to mentally formulate for himself. However, in contrast to the Ego block functions, the Super-Ego functions almost always keep their conclusions to themselves. Any information which is shared in these areas is meant for abstract discussion, rather than actual advice or criticism.

These functions are prone to inflexibility and tend to reject new information unless it comes from first-hand experience or sources that they already respect. These functions have great difficulty producing confident and creative responses in unfamiliar situations.

People rarely appreciate direct commentary and analysis of their Super-Ego function behavior except by highly trusted friends. Otherwise, they tend to automatically suspect ill will towards them. Criticism of these aspects of a person's life can produce long-lasting animosity. The person may either vehemently defend himself (too vehemently given the nature of the criticism) or close up and ruminate about the situation for days. Outright praise, on the other hand, produces an unexpected self-esteem boost.

By saying that the super-ego block is usually in service of the ego-block and that both blocks lie in the conscious realm of the individual, I think it can be deduced that they are the strongest 4 functions of the individual...

Perhaps it would be best to question the function stack order of the socionics model first...?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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By saying that the super-ego block is usually in service of the ego-block and that both blocks lie in the conscious realm of the individual, I think it can be deduced that they are the strongest 4 functions of the individual...

Perhaps it would be best to question the function stack order of the socionics model first...?

That makes total sense, because the PoLR obviously isn't the weakest function and the critical blind-spot inherent of a type, and the role function doesn't completely impair the lead function and cripple it juxtaposing the suggestive function's complementary attitude to the lead. While we are at it, the Id block must be the weakest of all the functions then, even though they are simply different attitudes to the ego block's functions.

Yep. Perfect sense.
 

yeghor

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That makes total sense, because the PoLR obviously isn't the weakest function and the critical blind-spot inherent of a type, and the role function doesn't completely impair the lead function and cripple it juxtaposing the suggestive function's complementary attitude to the lead. While we are at it, the Id block must be the weakest of all the functions then, even though they are simply different attitudes to the ego block's functions.

Yep. Perfect sense.

My head hurts...:D
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Does anybody actually want to share what their PoLR is like?

[MENTION=10791]sulfit[/MENTION] (I know of your expertise in Socionics)
[MENTION=10984]Azure Flame[/MENTION] (same)
[MENTION=13147]senza tema[/MENTION] (also same)
[MENTION=15886]superunknown[/MENTION]

et alia?
 

yeghor

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Does anybody actually want to share what their PoLR is like?

[MENTION=10791]sulfit[/MENTION] (I know of your expertise in Socionics)
[MENTION=10984]Azure Flame[/MENTION] (same)
[MENTION=13147]senza tema[/MENTION] (also same)

et alia?

actually?
 
S

Stansmith

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I guess I have two options.


-I find it somewhat annoying when people over-contextualize ethics and trivialize the responsibility people have over their actions regardless of their upbringing, low social standing or lack of 'privilege' (except in extreme cases). In most cases, I assume shitty/immoral behavior is the result of poor character and should be punished accordingly, and I perceive my failures as being my own responsibility and not society's or whatever social group I'm perceived to be subordinated by. (Ne PoLR)

-I tend to feel insecure about the logical consistency of my arguments/opinions. (Ti PoLR)
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I guess I have two options.


-I find it somewhat annoying when people over-contextualize ethics and trivialize the responsibility people have over their actions regardless of their upbringing, low social standing or lack of 'privilege'. In most cases, I assume shitty/immoral behavior is the result of poor character and should be punished accordingly, and I perceive my failures as being my own responsibility and not society's or whatever social group I'm perceived to be subordinated by. (Ne PoLR)

-I tend to feel insecure about the logical consistency of my arguments/opinions. (Ti PoLR)

Wouldn't it appeal to probability to assume that due to the specificity of one of your options that that option is in fact your PoLR?

The more revealing question here would be which hurts you more, someone criticizing your logic, or someone criticizing your ideas? (oversimplified, but still feasibly telling)
 

Azure Flame

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Does anybody actually want to share what their PoLR is like?

[MENTION=10791]sulfit[/MENTION] (I know of your expertise in Socionics)
[MENTION=10984]Azure Flame[/MENTION] (same)
[MENTION=13147]senza tema[/MENTION] (also same)
[MENTION=15886]superunknown[/MENTION]

et alia?

OMG THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER AND now I wanna go to bed.
 
S

Stansmith

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The more revealing question here would be which hurts you more, someone criticizing your logic, or someone criticizing your ideas? (oversimplified, but still feasibly telling)

Yeah, I'll have to keep that in mind. I think the latter generally bothers me more, or at least it seems more...antithetical to my way of viewing things, whereas the former is easier to brush off in most cases.
 
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